Leinster and scrumhalf development

A forum for true blue Leinster supporters to talk about and support their team

Moderator: moderators

Post Reply
Blue Man
Bookworm
Posts: 181
Joined: March 26th, 2009, 7:35 pm

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by Blue Man »

Serious lack of top level 9s and nothing coming through. Need to look at bringing in talent. Fardy has been a great signing but will leave at the end of the season. I’m open to correction but this will mean that we have no NIQs which surely affords us some leverage to sign a player, even allowing for the financial situation. Two things need to happen:
1) Sign a little general, Aaron Smith or TJ Perenara
2) As has previously been done with Props and Locks, roll out a focused, scrum half development Programme

Too often, in the big games, our 9s lack the ability to control the game or they act as a handbrake to quick play and continuity. Luke is a fantastic defensive player with a big heart and JGP has lots of zip and also brings a great attitude; however, neither are international standard.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6071
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by mildlyinterested »

well they aren't going to have the finances to sign a top NIQ so that's out.#

they have had scrumhalf specific training going on for a few years and a focus on trying to develop quality nines.. with little success.

betty swallocks
Learner
Posts: 66
Joined: May 15th, 2017, 4:23 pm

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by betty swallocks »

Nick McCarthy back from Munster?

Blue Man
Bookworm
Posts: 181
Joined: March 26th, 2009, 7:35 pm

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by Blue Man »

betty swallocks wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 4:28 pm
Nick McCarthy back from Munster?
Nowhere near good enough, I’m afraid.

Long term inability to develop 9s organically is a big concern. Luke McGrath and John Cooney the only decent product in the professional era and neither are regular 6 Nations first choice; I don’t think this can be said for any other position?

User avatar
ronk
Leo Cullen
Posts: 10787
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by ronk »

How you feel about hookers?

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6071
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by mildlyinterested »

If they have retained Cooney and not lost him during the MOC era.. but they did.

being unable to identify and develop a top quality scrumhalf in the past 5 u20 classes is an issue, can't allow it to extend much longer..

1995: Nick McCarthy
1996: Rowan Osborne
1997:
1998: Hugh O'Sullivan, Patrick Patterson
1999: Cormac Foley

User avatar
Laighin Break
Mullet
Posts: 1161
Joined: May 3rd, 2012, 9:35 am
Location: Scandinavia

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by Laighin Break »

ronk wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 7:35 pm
How you feel about hookers?
Mullet!

It also looks like Leinster will have Ireland's first choice hooker for the coming years (and possibly second choice too in time)

User avatar
Peg Leg
Rob Kearney
Posts: 9581
Joined: February 1st, 2010, 5:08 pm
Location: Procrastinasia
Contact:

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by Peg Leg »

Laighin Break wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 9:21 pm
ronk wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 7:35 pm
How you feel about hookers?
Mullet!

It also looks like Leinster will have Ireland's first choice hooker for the coming years (and possibly second choice too in time)
I think the 2nd choice will be 1st shortly.
Did you see the player value graphic for the pro##, prem and T14? Hookers are the lowest paid, I do not understand?
"It was Mrs O'Leary's cow"
Daniel Sullivan

User avatar
ronk
Leo Cullen
Posts: 10787
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by ronk »

Laighin Break wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 9:21 pm
ronk wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 7:35 pm
How you feel about hookers?
Mullet!

It also looks like Leinster will have Ireland's first choice hooker for the coming years (and possibly second choice too in time)
He made his debut in 1995, so he’s before the fully professional provinces.

User avatar
Laighin Break
Mullet
Posts: 1161
Joined: May 3rd, 2012, 9:35 am
Location: Scandinavia

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by Laighin Break »

ronk wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 2:32 am
Laighin Break wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 9:21 pm
ronk wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 7:35 pm
How you feel about hookers?
Mullet!

It also looks like Leinster will have Ireland's first choice hooker for the coming years (and possibly second choice too in time)
He made his debut in 1995, so he’s before the fully professional provinces.
Ah come on. He played for Ireland between 2001 and 2005 which was very much in the professional era.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6071
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by mildlyinterested »

Is the inability to develop top level hookers and scrumhalves linked to poor kill development in the province, both at lineout throwing and scrumhalf passing?

FLIP
Isa Nacewa
Posts: 2046
Joined: May 22nd, 2009, 1:00 am

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by FLIP »

mildlyinterested wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 9:18 am
Is the inability to develop top level hookers and scrumhalves linked to poor kill development in the province, both at lineout throwing and scrumhalf passing?
Change province to country and you'd be more correct. Top level players in these positions have either been flukes or imports.
Anyone But New Zealand

alanair
Graduate
Posts: 709
Joined: February 19th, 2009, 4:54 pm

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by alanair »

Blue Man wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 5:40 pm
betty swallocks wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 4:28 pm
Nick McCarthy back from Munster?
Nowhere near good enough, I’m afraid.

Long term inability to develop 9s organically is a big concern. Luke McGrath and John Cooney the only decent product in the professional era and neither are regular 6 Nations first choice; I don’t think this can be said for any other position?

Munster owe us a couple of favours ... so Crowley to Leinster !!!

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6071
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by mildlyinterested »

alanair wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 11:28 am
Blue Man wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 5:40 pm
betty swallocks wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 4:28 pm
Nick McCarthy back from Munster?
Nowhere near good enough, I’m afraid.

Long term inability to develop 9s organically is a big concern. Luke McGrath and John Cooney the only decent product in the professional era and neither are regular 6 Nations first choice; I don’t think this can be said for any other position?

Munster owe us a couple of favours ... so Crowley to Leinster !!!
Crowleys a 10/12

User avatar
LeinsterLeader
Mullet
Posts: 1906
Joined: May 23rd, 2010, 8:51 pm

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by LeinsterLeader »

We tend to be prepping a lot of nippy, smallish scrum halfs. I'd like to see them change it up and try to bring through a bigger more physical scrum-half. Ideally joost van der westhuizen but certainly more Isaac Boss then Eoin Redden. I've have no reasoning to think this would work better for us but it would be something different.

But are there any like that out there at schools level with promise........?

Over to you MI? :wink:

User avatar
ronk
Leo Cullen
Posts: 10787
Joined: April 9th, 2009, 12:42 am

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by ronk »

Laighin Break wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 8:47 am
ronk wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 2:32 am
Laighin Break wrote:
December 30th, 2020, 9:21 pm


Mullet!

It also looks like Leinster will have Ireland's first choice hooker for the coming years (and possibly second choice too in time)
He made his debut in 1995, so he’s before the fully professional provinces.
Ah come on. He played for Ireland between 2001 and 2005 which was very much in the professional era.
He’s still an amateur who went pro rather than having been developed as a pro through a professional provincial system. Keith Wood was a pro player too, as were Malcolm O’Kelly and David Humphreys. But they went to England before the provinces went pro. The guys who never had to choose between amateur AIL/province and pro in England are the ones developed in the pro era

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6071
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by mildlyinterested »

LeinsterLeader wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 1:10 pm
We tend to be prepping a lot of nippy, smallish scrum halfs. I'd like to see them change it up and try to bring through a bigger more physical scrum-half. Ideally joost van der westhuizen but certainly more Isaac Boss then Eoin Redden. I've have no reasoning to think this would work better for us but it would be something different.

But are there any like that out there at schools level with promise........?

Over to you MI? :wink:
at schools level? eh no one springs to mind..

there has been two recent players who fit the bigger scrum half mold.. James Kenny(22/Lansdowne) and Rob Gilsenan(20/UCD)

User avatar
LeinsterLeader
Mullet
Posts: 1906
Joined: May 23rd, 2010, 8:51 pm

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by LeinsterLeader »

mildlyinterested wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 2:13 pm
LeinsterLeader wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 1:10 pm
We tend to be prepping a lot of nippy, smallish scrum halfs. I'd like to see them change it up and try to bring through a bigger more physical scrum-half. Ideally joost van der westhuizen but certainly more Isaac Boss then Eoin Redden. I've have no reasoning to think this would work better for us but it would be something different.

But are there any like that out there at schools level with promise........?

Over to you MI? :wink:
at schools level? eh no one springs to mind..

there has been two recent players who fit the bigger scrum half mold.. James Kenny(22/Lansdowne) and Rob Gilsenan(20/UCD)
Well I suppose if neither of those guys were considered for academy places it's something of an indicator that it may not be the way Leinster want to go.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6071
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by mildlyinterested »

LeinsterLeader wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 2:36 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 2:13 pm
LeinsterLeader wrote:
December 31st, 2020, 1:10 pm
We tend to be prepping a lot of nippy, smallish scrum halfs. I'd like to see them change it up and try to bring through a bigger more physical scrum-half. Ideally joost van der westhuizen but certainly more Isaac Boss then Eoin Redden. I've have no reasoning to think this would work better for us but it would be something different.

But are there any like that out there at schools level with promise........?

Over to you MI? :wink:
at schools level? eh no one springs to mind..

there has been two recent players who fit the bigger scrum half mold.. James Kenny(22/Lansdowne) and Rob Gilsenan(20/UCD)
Well I suppose if neither of those guys were considered for academy places it's something of an indicator that it may not be the way Leinster want to go.
Kenny was in the sub academy for 2 years along with Patterson and Foley.. but couldn't stay healthy.. he's been healthy and very good for Lansdowne since leaving the sub-academy.

Gilsenan I believe is in the sub-academy this year and is u20 eligible. He struggled with injury last season.

Foley is pretty big by leinster scrumhalf standards, at 5'11 85kg. And it's not like he or HOS are known for their nippy play.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6071
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster and scrumhalf development

Post by mildlyinterested »

Cooney went into more depth about leaving Leinster on recent podcast, was due to re-sign with Leinster after connacht loan but didnt see eye to eye with MOC and was happier in Connacht because of it.

Post Reply