The leinster dream thread (100th edition)

[JB1973]

As these are appearing all over the place I thought I'd put my effort up for you guys, this is based on the pro era

Apologises if this is already on here somewhere

Kearney (r) Horgan BOD Darcy Isa

Sexton Reddan

Healy Cronin Furlong
Ryan Thorne
Elsom SOB Heaslip

harsh on FC,Hickie,cullen and Jennings , top team that and Joe as the coach

[Oldschoolsocks]

As these are appearing all over the place I thought I'd put my effort up for you guys, this is based on the pro era

Apologises if this is already on here somewhere

Kearney (r) Horgan BOD Darcy Isa

Sexton Reddan

Healy Cronin Furlong
Ryan Thorne
Elsom SOB Heaslip

harsh on FC,Hickie,cullen and Jennings , top team that and Joe as the coach

I’d have Shane Byrne at 2, big Mal in the row, Gleeson needs to be at 7 but is that SOB at 6 and Epsom loosing out?

[JB1973]

I forgot about miller at 8, any chance he would get in? classy player and liked to get stuck in

[Oldschoolsocks]

Not ahead of Heaslip

[Oldschool]

I forgot about miller at 8, any chance he would get in? classy player and liked to get stuck in

Agree on Heaslip being the better 8 but I'd definitely start Miller ahead of Elsom.

[JB1973]

Pre professional who are the great leinster players of yore? o'reily and slattery are the ones with the great lions heritage and that dawson and goodard must have been top quality . I was a big fan of mullin growing up and Ollie Campbell always seemed to give wales a hard time!

Any of the older posters on here care to shed some light for me?

[cormac]

Pre professional who are the great leinster players of yore? o'reily and slattery are the ones with the great lions heritage and that dawson and goodard must have been top quality . I was a big fan of mullin growing up and Ollie Campbell always seemed to give wales a hard time!

Any of the older posters on here care to shed some light for me?

Probably not quite old enough but some favourites from the 80's/early 90's would include the likes of Phil Orr, Nick Popplewell, Paul Dean and Willie Duggan. Tony Ward also had spells with Leinster although he's probably better known for his spell with Munster during his time spent at college in Limerick.

[JB1973]

I remember poppelwell being a quality for the lions out in nz in 1993, I didn't know ward had played for leinster.

I was at the wales game in 87 when dean got two trys, where would be rank in the irish fly half standings?

[johng]

Would have loved to see what a 10/12/13 of Kyle/Gibson/BOD would have created for Ireland.

[Oldschool]

Hugo McNeill (Tony Ensor)
Tom Grace
Brendan Mullin
Paul Dean (Paul McNaughton)
Freddie McLennon
Campbell (Ward)
Johnny Maloney (John Robbie SA???)
Popplewell (Orr)
John Cantwell. Edited
Des Fitzgerald
Willie Duggan (I know I know)
Franno (Mays)
Slattery
Michael Gibson (Super player)
Shay Deering
Bench - if such a thing existed.

[Oldschool]

I remember poppelwell being a quality for the lions out in nz in 1993, I didn't know ward had played for leinster.

I was at the wales game in 87 when dean got two trys, where would be rank in the irish fly half standings?

Ward played for both Shamrock Rovers and Leinster.
Ward played for Limerick City and Munster
Ward played at OH with Campbell at IC for one game (I think) for Ireland that is.
The "experiment" didn't work, Ward was dropped and Campbell (the better oh TBF) was moved back to OH

[Ruckedtobits]

Hugo McNeill (Tony Ensor)
Tom Grace
Brendan Mullin
Paul Dean (Paul McNaughton)
Freddie McLennon
Campbell (Ward)
Johnny Maloney (John Robbie SA???)
Popplewell (Orr)
Can't sell
Des Fitzgerald
Willie Duggan (I know I know)
Franno (Mays)
Slattery
Michael Gibson (Super player)
Shay Deering
Bench - if such a thing existed.

My listing is slightly longer and drawn from notes of a discussion for an article drafted (but unpublished) in 1989 for an Irish Rugby Magazine. These were the names that five players / coaches, who had experience at that point across 40 years, of Leinster Rugby came up with:

15. George Norton, Tony Ensor, Rodney O'Donnell, Hugo McNeill
14. Tony O'Reilly, Alan Duggan, Tom Grace
13. Kevin Flynn, Brendan Mullin, Paul Dean
12. Barry Bresnihan, Pat Casey, Vinnie Cunningham
11. Niall Brophy, Freddie McLennan
10. Seamus Kelly, Ollie Campbell, Tony Ward
9. Andy Mulligan, Jimmy Kelly, Johnny Moloney, John Robbie

1. Phil Orr, Nick Poppelwell
2. Karl Mullen, Robin Roe, Ronnie Dawson
3. Paddy O'Donoghue, Sean Lynch, Des Fitzgerald
4. Gerry Culleton, Bill Mulcahy
5. Neil Francis
6. Ronnie Kavanagh, Shay Deering
7. Mick Doyle, Fergus Slattery
8. Des O'Brien, Mick Hipwell, Willie Duggan

Everyone on this list was confirmed by his promoters (at least 3 votes for inclusion) as falling into the category as being 'best of generation' for a minimum of 3 seasons - not necessarily consecutive. We each started with 12 different names (60 in total) and we drank plenty and shared a great meal before arriving at the above list after 10 hours - it was a lunch gathering at a great venue.

We had huge problems with 2nd Row & LHP - and now look at us. The 'three-year condition' caught many candidates. I watched or played against all but nine on the list and was convinced by the case made by others for each of those nine. 10 of my contenders made the cut but one of our crew had 11 successes.

Reading the notes back, I took them because I was the only regular computer user, I'm struck by how many of this list had great Lions Tours. But Irish rugby did not experience many great Seasons between 1951 & 1971 and again between 1975 & 1995. Doyler gave Leinster rugby some decent days in the 80's, but internationally there were slim pickings.

When I have considered this list again I'll set out a selected XV plus subs. But it's not an easy call as there are a lot of great memories to be ranked in some order.

[paddyor]

My listing is slightly longer and drawn from notes of a discussion for an article drafted (but unpublished) in 1989 for an Irish Rugby Magazine. These were the names that five players / coaches, who had experience at that point across 40 years, of Leinster Rugby came up with:

15. George Norton, Tony Ensor, Rodney O'Donnell, Hugo McNeill
14. Tony O'Reilly, Alan Duggan, Tom Grace
13. Kevin Flynn, Brendan Mullin, Paul Dean
12. Barry Bresnihan, Pat Casey, Vinnie Cunningham
11. Niall Brophy, Freddie McLennan
10. Seamus Kelly, Ollie Campbell, Tony Ward
9. Andy Mulligan, Jimmy Kelly, Johnny Moloney, John Robbie

1. Phil Orr, Nick Poppelwell
2. Karl Mullen, Robin Roe, Ronnie Dawson
3. Paddy O'Donoghue, Sean Lynch, Des Fitzgerald
4. Gerry Culleton, Bill Mulcahy
5. Neil Francis
6. Ronnie Kavanagh, Shay Deering
7. Mick Doyle, Fergus Slattery
8. Des O'Brien, Mick Hipwell, Willie Duggan

Everyone on this list was confirmed by his promoters (at least 3 votes for inclusion) as falling into the category as being 'best of generation' for a minimum of 3 seasons - not necessarily consecutive. We each started with 12 different names (60 in total) and we drank plenty and shared a great meal before arriving at the above list after 10 hours - it was a lunch gathering at a great venue.

We had huge problems with 2nd Row & LHP - and now look at us. The 'three-year condition' caught many candidates. I watched or played against all but nine on the list and was convinced by the case made by others for each of those nine. 10 of my contenders made the cut but one of our crew had 11 successes.

Reading the notes back, I took them because I was the only regular computer user, I'm struck by how many of this list had great Lions Tours. But Irish rugby did not experience many great Seasons between 1951 & 1971 and again between 1975 & 1995. Doyler gave Leinster rugby some decent days in the 80's, but internationally there were slim pickings.

When I have considered this list again I'll set out a selected XV plus subs. But it's not an easy call as there are a lot of great memories to be ranked in some order.

Such an on brand post

[OTT]

Enjoyed reading those posts OS and RTB, had done a team up earlier but decided not to post as it was to limited to the last 30 years which is unfair because it is biased to my personal experiences and limited to more or less a group of men who played for Leinster as a career. Lots of those names you both have listed are guys my dad would talk about when he is schooling me on my knowledge or lack of

Looking forward to your conclusion RTB.

Nice thread JB.

[cormac]

Must have been very slim pickings in the second row if Franno is in there. Loads of talent but so little heart.

[Oldschool]

Must have been very slim pickings in the second row if Franno is in there. Loads of talent but so little heart.

Yeah SR was a problem.
Franno had it all, could have been a colossus but attitude, attitude, attitude.
George Wallace was a decent SR probably should have been capped for Ireland.
Con Feighery was capped.
Kevin Mays too.
Some of the players RTB mentioned were before my time.
I've never even seen footage of Tony O'Reilly aside from his Twickenham emergency comeback.
Kevin Flynn had silky skills.
I mentioned Michael Gibson at 8.
The guy was 6'6", skilful, a real athlete - Jamie Heaslip like.
His face didn't fit and while Willie Duggan was a good 8 he had the physique and power to play in the SR.
He refused to play SR allegedly, should have been given a toe up the hole, but that's just a personal opinion.
We were really struggling for SRs at the time at International level too.
Campbell was great.
He was capped in 1976 v Australia.
We got stuffed, the selectors behaved like babies and dropped Ollie (not alone) until his comeback in 1979, ironically against Australia.
BTW John Cantwell not can't sell was my hooker.
Very accurate lineout.
Mary's powered Leinster in the 80's but Mick Doyle as coach had Leinster playing at another level.
Terry Kennedy another winger.

[johng]

Nothing to be said for Donal Lenihan? Or even Moss Keane? Willie john? Far too short for the modern game but a colossus in his day.

I was actually at WJMcB's last home game for Ireland. I was a kid standing beside Eamonn Andrews when he brought out his big red book and did "this is your life" to him.

I wonder is there footage of it somewhere? I remember him in a big camel coloured crombie with a mike and his book and a a thick coating of make up.

Eamonn Andrews that is not willie john.

[Ruckedtobits]

As I said above, trying to distill the memories and seperate them from the statistical records makes an exercise like this daunting. So, I'm initially selecting two teams of Leinster 'Greats'. Team A is based on those who played 1950 - 1995 and Team B is based on those who played in the professional era 1995-2020. Professional sport is a lifetime away from amateur sport, in any code, and performances are never directly comparable. However, excellence and competitiveness are skills and attributes that make every player great in his own era. Accordingly, I am going to base my selection of Team A on the individual's excellence in his position and as a contributor to his team in the time in which he played. When I come to select an overall team, if I can, I will try to figure out by what criteria I make the compromises.

Team A 1950-1995

Full-back: Hugo MacNeill:----- Leinster, Ireland 1981-8 (37 caps, 10 Tries) & Lions (3 Tests) NZ 1993
Right Wing: Tony O'Reilly:----- Leinster, Ireland 1955-70 (29 caps, 4 Tries) & Lions (10 Tests) S Africa1955 & N Z 1959, 38 tries (record)
Centre: Brendan Mullin:------- Leinster. Ireland 1984-95 (55 caps, 17 Tries) & Lions (2 Tests) Aus 1989
Centre: Kevin Flynn:----------- Leinster, Ireland (1959-73) (22 caps, 5 tries)
Left Wing: Niall Brophy:------- Leinster, Ireland (1957-67, 22 caps, 5 tries) & Lions NZ 1959 & SA (2 caps) 1962
Out-half: Ollie Campbell:----- Leinster, Ireland (1976-84, 22 caps, 217 pts) & Lions SA 1980 (3 caps) & NZ 1993 (4 caps) 184 pts
Scrum-half: John Maloney:--- Leinster, Ireland, Capt (1972-80, 27 caps, 4 tries) & Lions SA 1974

L-H Prop: Nick Popplewell:---- Leinster, Ireland (1989-98, 48 caps) & Lions NZ 1993 (3 caps)
Hooker: Ronnie Dawson:------- Leinster, Ireland, Capt, (1958-64, 27 caps) & Lions, Capt, NZ 1959 (6 caps)
T-H Prop: Sean Lynch:---------- Leinster, Ireland, (1971-75, 17 caps) & Lions, NZ 1971 (4 caps)
Second-row: Bill Mulcahy:----- Leinster, Ireland, (1958-65, 35 caps) & Lions, NZ 1959 (2 caps) & SA 1962 (4 caps)
Second-row: Neil Francis:----- Leinster, Ireland, (1987-96, 36 caps, 4 tries)
Blindside : Ronnie Kavanagh:- Leinster, Ireland, (1953-62, 35 caps, 4 tries) 'One of the greatest of all forwards', ESPN Rugby 2011
Openside : Fergus Slattery:--- Leinster, Ireland, Capt (1970-84, 61 caps, 3 tries) & Lions NZ 1971, SA 1974 (4 caps)
No 8: Willie Duggan:------------ Leinster, Ireland, (1975-84, 41 caps, 2 tries), & Lions NZ 1977 (4 caps, 1 try)

I'll get Team B together after a decent lunch and bottle of wine, More courage required

[riocard911]

I can still remember sitting in the beer garden of the c~*k Tavern on a wonderfully warm night in Howth engaged in underage drinking with the gang when the news came thru Ireland had beaten Oz in the first Test with Ollie having given a MOTM performance. No live TV coverage back then. Me and the pals were chuffed!!!

[riocard911]

Bit rich the spell checker assuming the name of a well-known North Dublin ale house is somehow rude and deserving of censure.... Trigger warning! Won't someone think of the children?!!!!