Leinster v Salarysins

[hugonaut]

Vincent Koch to leave Saracens

To my mind they last beat us mostly because we didn't have Tadhg and they had Koch

This looks like a big loss for them and his presence at Wasps will be diluted by the mediocrity elsewhere in their squad.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/59596425

I think he's the best tighthead scrummager in the world. He's not as good a player as Tadhg, but he is an absolutely awesome scrummager. Saracens won't be able to replace him.

Hugo I have huge respect for your opinions but I think you’ve forgotten a fairly obvious factor in terms of trying to replace him.

Show Spoiler:

They’re a bunch of cheating b$&%@#ds

Haha!

It's not the money, it's the availability.

Unless they go in for Malherbe [who is up there with Koch and Tadhg as a tighthead scrummager] then it's a step down. Tupou is very good as a ball carrier but not in the same rank as the above three as a scrummager. Same for Sinckler, who's on huge money at Bristol and isn't likely to leave anyway.

[ronk]

If Quin's had beaten us in 09 and won the semi would Munster have been victims of cheating?

When they cheated directly against the other English clubs in the HC they cheated against everyone.

Saracens were key players in torpedoing the Heineken Cup. The BT deal was a combined European and English deal and the salary cap was part of that. So it wasn't particularly remote at all.

[Xanthippe]

I think he's the best tighthead scrummager in the world. He's not as good a player as Tadhg, but he is an absolutely awesome scrummager. Saracens won't be able to replace him.

Hugo I have huge respect for your opinions but I think you’ve forgotten a fairly obvious factor in terms of trying to replace him.

Show Spoiler:

They’re a bunch of cheating b$&%@#ds

But they didn't cheat us.
They cheated other English Clubs, that's all.

No sorry, can't agree with that. By cheating the English clubs they qualified for a competition they had no right to play in therefore we, and anyone else who played and was beaten by them, were cheated.

[Dexter]

They were cheaters, full stop. You cheat in one competition, a feeder into another competition, and you cheat everyone.
...and yes, I AM bitter!

[outcast eddie]

I think he's the best tighthead scrummager in the world. He's not as good a player as Tadhg, but he is an absolutely awesome scrummager. Saracens won't be able to replace him.

Hugo I have huge respect for your opinions but I think you’ve forgotten a fairly obvious factor in terms of trying to replace him.

Show Spoiler:

They’re a bunch of cheating b$&%@#ds

Haha!

It's not the money, it's the availability.

Unless they go in for Malherbe [who is up there with Koch and Tadhg as a tighthead scrummager] then it's a step down. Tupou is very good as a ball carrier but not in the same rank as the above three as a scrummager. Same for Sinckler, who's on huge money at Bristol and isn't likely to leave anyway.

I think new Premiership rules allow for only 1 non-England qualified marquee signing next season, Saracens don't seem to have another name on their books that fits this description so it's safe to expect a big name to be added to their squad to replace Koch.

[Laighin Break]

Good thing Tadhg's been nailed down for 3 years so. It'd make you sick seeing him lining out for Sarries

[ronk]

Good thing Tadhg's been nailed down for 3 years so. It'd make you sick seeing him lining out for Sarries

And that Porter is now a loosehead too.

[blockhead]

They were cheaters, full stop. You cheat in one competition, a feeder into another competition, and you cheat everyone.
...and yes, I AM bitter!

Yeah but....
They cheated a rule in the Premiership that was there to limit the amount of money they could invest in their squad, a self imposed handicap if you like, there for the health of the English club collective.
Do we have to comply to such a rule? No.
Is our budget more or less than the limit imposed on the English teams? I honestly don't know. I suspect its more.
I'm pretty sure that we have played many a French team that has a bigger budget than Saracens.
So, what I'm saying is that I'm not comfortable pointing the finger at a club for salary breaches when my own club does not have to comply with similar limits and probably outspends said club.
It's a bit rich, pardon the pun.

[Dave Cahill]

Yeah but....
They cheated a rule in the Premiership that was there to limit the amount of money they could invest in their squad, a self imposed handicap if you like, there for the health of the English club collective.
Do we have to comply to such a rule? No.
Is our budget more or less than the limit imposed on the English teams? I honestly don't know. I suspect its more.
I'm pretty sure that we have played many a French team that has a bigger budget than Saracens.
So, what I'm saying is that I'm not comfortable pointing the finger at a club for salary breaches when my own club does not have to comply with similar limits and probably outspends said club.
It's a bit rich, pardon the pun.

That would be the salary cap that the clubs, including Saracens, imposed upon themselves, yeah?

So, to sum up your post - Leinster are entirely compliant with the governance regulations Leinster operates under, but Saracens breached theirs, an act of cheating.

[paddyor]

Still didn't cheat us though did they? They cheated the teams in the GP and the players(and apparently it cost England) but I don't think we get to get up on our high horse about it.

[ronk]

They cheated and got caught. We didn't and we didn't. We can call them cheaters.

The English and French clubs changed how we choose teams for the HC, Saracens cheated on their selection/seeding. The salary cap was agreed knowing that teams also had to compete in Europe. It was also known during negotiations of the new HC.

[Dexter]

They were cheaters, full stop. You cheat in one competition, a feeder into another competition, and you cheat everyone.
...and yes, I AM bitter!

Yeah but....
They cheated a rule in the Premiership that was there to limit the amount of money they could invest in their squad, a self imposed handicap if you like, there for the health of the English club collective.
Do we have to comply to such a rule? No.
Is our budget more or less than the limit imposed on the English teams? I honestly don't know. I suspect its more.
I'm pretty sure that we have played many a French team that has a bigger budget than Saracens.
So, what I'm saying is that I'm not comfortable pointing the finger at a club for salary breaches when my own club does not have to comply with similar limits and probably outspends said club.
It's a bit rich, pardon the pun.

Bloody cheaters. I hate that team with a passion....

[Dave Cahill]

Still didn't cheat us though did they? They cheated the teams in the GP and the players(and apparently it cost England) but I don't think we get to get up on our high horse about it.

Yes they did cheat us, and every other team in the competition who earned their place honestly. By cheating to enter the competition their every action in that competition was an act of cheating. When we played them we were cheated because we were playing them and not the team that should have been there. Frankly I'm still astonished that their titles weren't stripped by the EPCR

[fourthirtythree]

Why oh why did they change the words for the film? It's an actual f%~king poem in the original (as are all of Don Revie's asides). They done f%~ked it up. The rhythm is gone.

[Ruckedtobits]

Cried my eyes out last night when I saw the Challenge Cup result that Edinburgh had beaten Sarries. Imagine missing that spectacle.