Jack McGrath

[blockhead]

North Leinster. That's what we'll be calling them next season. And it seems to have happened very quickly. All of a sudden there are, what will it be? 12 Leinster guys putting on a white jersey next season?

[QBer]

Agreed, is Leinster just a distribution centre for rugby players? It has to be more than that. It's an identity and culture thing. Jack McGrath and Jordi Murphy for example are "of Leinster" in the same way that Ruan Pienaar was "of Ulster" even though he wasn't from there. Could you imagine Pienaar playing for Leinster?!

It's about more than an ability to play rugby. The provincial identity is being diluted by certain player moves. You are what you is.

[allezlesverres]

Let's look at the Ulster team against Leinster and where they grew up:

1.Eric O'Sullivan (Leinster)
2.Rory Best (Ulster)
3.Marty Moore (Leinster, inc. playing at pro level)
4.Iain Henderson (Ulster)
5.Kieran Treadwell (England)
6.Nick Timoney (Leinster)
7.Jordi Murphy (Leinster)
8.Marcell Coetzee (South Africa)

9.John Cooney (Leinster, inc. playing at pro level)
10.Billy Burns (England)
11.Jacob Stockdale (Ulster)
12.Stuart McCloskey (Ulster)
13.Darren Cave (Ulster)
14.Robert Balacoune (Ulster)
15.Michael Lowry (Ulster)

16.Rob Herring (South Africa) 17.Andrew Warwick (Ulster) 18.Wiehann Herbst (South Africa) 19.Alan O'Connor (Leinster) 20.Sean Reidy (New Zealand) 21.Dave Shanahan (Leinster) 22.Luke Marshall (Ulster) 23.Angus Kernohan (Ulster)

With the exception of outside backs the Ulster academy is a disgrace and Ulster are completely losing their identity as a team.

Is the academy the right place to direct your ire at? Wouldn't all of O'Connor, Shanahan, Timoney and O'Sullivan be Ulster academy graduates? Or were some of them first signed on development contracts?

And not only that, weren't all of O'Connor, Shanahan, Timoney and O'Sullivan NOT offered Leinster academy spots? I think you've a fair point being grumpy about Jordi Murphy and Jack McGrath, but you can't claim the others as Leinster players if Leinster never offered them a job. If you wanted them, you could have offered them a job. They aren't just going to quit rugby because they can't get a game for Leinster.

Also, although it probably feels like it, it isn't all one way traffic. Leinster has for years benefited from interprovincial moves from players coming in from other provinces.

[OTT]

And not only that, weren't all of O'Connor, Shanahan, Timoney and O'Sullivan NOT offered Leinster academy spots? I think you've a fair point being grumpy about Jordi Murphy and Jack McGrath, but you can't claim the others as Leinster players if Leinster never offered them a job. If you wanted them, you could have offered them a job. They aren't just going to quit rugby because they can't get a game for Leinster.

Also, although it probably feels like it, it isn't all one way traffic. Leinster has for years benefited from interprovincial moves from players coming in from other provinces.

I would go further then that and say we can have no complaints about the Jordi move at all, Leinster obviously could not offer Jordi what he wanted which was to be the guy guaranteed to be getting picked for the big games and Ulster could. We can be disappointed as fans because he is a great player but we all (or the majority) understand that rugby is a hazardous career and a guy has to get the most for himself in the few years he has playing. So he did what he felt was best when his contract was expiring. Sad to see him go but happy that he is doing the business for Ulster

To all the lads like Shanahan, O'Connor, Cooney and Timoney I tip my hat at them for showing us that they are good enough. Fair f%~ks to the lot of of them.

On the other hand Jack is leaving mid contract like Joey before him, that is a phenomenon which only seems to effect Leinster. If Leo or Mick Dawson ie Leinster come out and say that they have released Jack as goodwill for his services to Leinster I could even live with that because we all love Jack and want there to be nothing sour in him leaving.That is what people are going nuts over. Joey should have waited a year and Jack should have waited a year till their respective contracts were up, that is the right way things should be done imo like all those other provincial moves you talk about. You see the difference, right? Should we be tapping up Stockdale while he is under contract? I don't think we should.

[fourthirtythree]

There wasn't a peep here when Jordi left: that was voluntary on the player's part. Our loss but the guy made his decision. Delighted for Cooney finally getting a proper run that his talent merited which he didn't get here (to my annoyance at the time) nor at Connacht (which also annoyed me).

The threatening players with consequences should they not move mid-contract though. That's not good. Not good at all.

[the spoofer]

There wasn't a peep here when Jordi left: that was voluntary on the player's part. Our loss but the guy made his decision. Delighted for Cooney finally getting a proper run that his talent merited which he didn't get here (to my annoyance at the time) nor at Connacht (which also annoyed me).

The threatening players with consequences should they not move mid-contract though. That's not good. Not good at all.

Ross Byrne told IRFU to get stuffed when they wanted him to move to Ulster. Looked what happened to him. Saying no has consequences.

[desperado]

There's an awful lot of BS on the 'will Leinster be competitive' and this 'thread'. Wailing violins about how Leinster are propping up all the other provinces with exports. How many direct exports apart from McGrath, and Carbery, that would currently (with all the squad fit) be 3rd choice or better for their position. Indeed it could be argued that Jordi might just about be 3rd choice.

[olaf the fat]

There's an awful lot of BS on the 'will Leinster be competitive' and this 'thread'. Wailing violins about how Leinster are propping up all the other provinces with exports.

Wailing truth

[Jackie Brown]

Let's look at the Ulster team against Leinster and where they grew up:

1.Eric O'Sullivan (Leinster)
2.Rory Best (Ulster)
3.Marty Moore (Leinster, inc. playing at pro level)
4.Iain Henderson (Ulster)
5.Kieran Treadwell (England)
6.Nick Timoney (Leinster)
7.Jordi Murphy (Leinster)
8.Marcell Coetzee (South Africa)

9.John Cooney (Leinster, inc. playing at pro level)
10.Billy Burns (England)
11.Jacob Stockdale (Ulster)
12.Stuart McCloskey (Ulster)
13.Darren Cave (Ulster)
14.Robert Balacoune (Ulster)
15.Michael Lowry (Ulster)

16.Rob Herring (South Africa) 17.Andrew Warwick (Ulster) 18.Wiehann Herbst (South Africa) 19.Alan O'Connor (Leinster) 20.Sean Reidy (New Zealand) 21.Dave Shanahan (Leinster) 22.Luke Marshall (Ulster) 23.Angus Kernohan (Ulster)

With the exception of outside backs the Ulster academy is a disgrace and Ulster are completely losing their identity as a team.

I'm glad you are so concerned

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[fourthirtythree]

There wasn't a peep here when Jordi left: that was voluntary on the player's part. Our loss but the guy made his decision. Delighted for Cooney finally getting a proper run that his talent merited which he didn't get here (to my annoyance at the time) nor at Connacht (which also annoyed me).

The threatening players with consequences should they not move mid-contract though. That's not good. Not good at all.

Ross Byrne told IRFU to get stuffed when they wanted him to move to Ulster. Looked what happened to him. Saying no has consequences.

Yeah, bad consequences for Ross Byrne and actually cutting off noses to spite face consequences for Ireland. But that'll larn any uppity Leinster player who thinks he's good enough to make the Ireland squad on merit. You've got to be there on merit, and lick the boot too.

[matt]

Jack still has a chance of making Japan but a lot of work to do on his fitness.

Also a bit surprised to hear Joe not impressed by Beirne stamina and surprise selection in second row for World Cup after ryan, toner and Henderson is likely to be Kleyn who will be available in September.

Suspect some discussion about the back row now that we know about the huge loss of leavy not sure who will go with stander, o’mahony, vdf and Conan. Jordi looks a better bet than seanie at the moment but a lot can happen over the summer.

[paddyor]

There wasn't a peep here when Jordi left: that was voluntary on the player's part. Our loss but the guy made his decision. Delighted for Cooney finally getting a proper run that his talent merited which he didn't get here (to my annoyance at the time) nor at Connacht (which also annoyed me).

The threatening players with consequences should they not move mid-contract though. That's not good. Not good at all.

Ross Byrne told IRFU to get stuffed when they wanted him to move to Ulster. Looked what happened to him. Saying no has consequences.

Hang on, Carty was the from 10 going into the six nations. He's already had good skills/instincts ball in hand(there's at least one poster who said he was an outside chance for the last world cup) but his kicking out of hand and off the tee make him like a new player for Connacht. He's there on merit.

[Peg Leg]

There wasn't a peep here when Jordi left: that was voluntary on the player's part. Our loss but the guy made his decision. Delighted for Cooney finally getting a proper run that his talent merited which he didn't get here (to my annoyance at the time) nor at Connacht (which also annoyed me).

The threatening players with consequences should they not move mid-contract though. That's not good. Not good at all.

Ross Byrne told IRFU to get stuffed when they wanted him to move to Ulster. Looked what happened to him. Saying no has consequences.

Hang on, Carty was the from 10 going into the six nations. He's already had good skills/instincts ball in hand(there's at least one poster who said he was an outside chance for the last world cup) but his kicking out of hand and off the tee make him like a new player for Connacht. He's there on merit.

Ah come on, Byrne's being doing it in Europe (consistently), Carty, not so much.

"It was Mrs. O'Leary's cow"

[ronk]

Ross Byrne told IRFU to get stuffed when they wanted him to move to Ulster. Looked what happened to him. Saying no has consequences.

Hang on, Carty was the from 10 going into the six nations. He's already had good skills/instincts ball in hand(there's at least one poster who said he was an outside chance for the last world cup) but his kicking out of hand and off the tee make him like a new player for Connacht. He's there on merit.

Byrne was picked on the summer tour before Carbery moved, then the only player not used.

[wise7]

and he played well in his 2 appearances in the AI's especially against the US where he got 60 mins or so and brought a lot of structure and composure to the pivot. Given his strong performance aginst Toulouse subsequently in January, it is difficult to see how he was omitted from the 6N's on form.

[deco]

and he played well in his 2 appearances in the AI's especially against the US where he got 60 mins or so and brought a lot of structure and composure to the pivot. Given his strong performance aginst Toulouse subsequently in January, it is difficult to see how he was omitted from the 6N's on form.

Was he omitted from the squad because he said no to Joe? If true, the message is clear.

[fourthirtythree]

Don't forget, according to the player himself, Cooney's move to Belfast had nothing to do with Nucifora or Schmidt and was instead entirely his own idea. I did see Nucifora later claiming credit for it (in a plausible deniability interestingly phrased way).

Just in case you were wondering why Cooney's willingness to move and current form versus his mostly injured rivals hasn't translated into caps.

[johng]

and he played well in his 2 appearances in the AI's especially against the US where he got 60 mins or so and brought a lot of structure and composure to the pivot. Given his strong performance aginst Toulouse subsequently in January, it is difficult to see how he was omitted from the 6N's on form.

Was he omitted from the squad because he said no to Joe? If true, the message is clear.

I have no idea but I'd say that's making sh1t up to suit an agenda. Maybe Josef just had rugby reasons for choosing Carty. At least as plausible.

[OTT]

and he played well in his 2 appearances in the AI's especially against the US where he got 60 mins or so and brought a lot of structure and composure to the pivot. Given his strong performance aginst Toulouse subsequently in January, it is difficult to see how he was omitted from the 6N's on form.

Was he omitted from the squad because he said no to Joe? If true, the message is clear.

I have no idea but I'd say that's making sh1t up to suit an agenda. Maybe Josef just had rugby reasons for choosing Carty. At least as plausible.

I don't know I was approached rather aggressively by Schmidt and Nucifora last October on the 46A outside RTE and they told me that I had to move my season ticket to Munster for the good of Irish rugby (usually 12k empty seats in the white elephant known as Thomond was their case) I refused point blank and not a sniff of a Irish 6 nations ticket for me, previously I had done okay in draws and sourcing of tickets. I am a good chanter and would add to the fanbase on merit. The proof is in the pudding.

[johng]

That on the other hand is totally believeable.