Safety in Rugby: The Key To Defusing Leinster's Time Bomb

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backrower8
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Safety in Rugby: The Key To Defusing Leinster's Time Bomb

Post by backrower8 »

I am putting these updated remarks in a thread of their own. Let it sink or swim. I am trying to encourage dialogue and action on safeguarding our sport and our team by, in this instance, fostering debate amongst Leinster Addicts. With 4 deaths in France in 8 months the clock is ticking much louder and faster than ever before and this online community should be part of the force for making our sport much safer than it is now.

I believe we all need to do more to make our sport much safer than it is. Talking about what we can do as rugby enthusiasts and what we think the sport's governing bodies should do is part of the agitation needed to protect players at all levels and in the process safeguard the future of our sport and especially Leinster Rugby.

As I have said before, Leinster/all Rugby is at risk generally with increasing concerns about the sport's safety at all levels beyond minis.

We have a particular weakness in that we are overreliant on schools who produce 75% of our player intake and they are INDEPENDENT entities of (LB)IRFU.

I consider schools that play in the Leinster Schools Cup competitions to be feeder schools into Leinster Rugby. These INDEPENDENT rugby schools are collectively one big eco-system. It doesn't matter much if some have no pro players and others have a few. When one of these schools catches a 'cold' (from a rugby brain injury or death) then Leinster Pro-rugby will get 'pneumonia' because Leinster Rugby doesn't govern/control any of them and will not be able to limit the damage it will incur from schools taking the foot off the pedal of their rugby programmes - or even exiting the sport. Some schools have already done this by reducing the emphasis on rugby or keeping a limit on how hard it is pushed as an activity in the school's offering. Others have decided to literally muscle-up and chase the rugy dream very hard. For better or worse.

No, I don't have solutions but here are some suggestions for what the governing bodies, from LBIRFU to IRFU to World Rugby, should do:

- THE MAIN SUGGESTION: Make the game much safer, sooner. Just get it done as all the time people are losing confidence or being turned off in greater numbers.

- THE TEMPORARY & INADEQUATE ONE: Spread the risk by increasing the output of pro players from a wider range of rugby hotbeds:

Belvedere, Terenure, Castlenock and St Mary's (there is a glut of players coming from St Michael's, Blackrock & Clongowes)
The next layer of rugby schools & the rugby clubs
Work hard to avoid a major dip in the output of the big 3 schools producers - rugby safety is the key here

- OTHER - We the supporters/fans, parents, players, volunteers...don't wait for World Rugby & (LB)IRFU to do it, we should be the change agents we needby putting the governing bodies under pressure. Agitate - which is what I do here and have done elsewhere including meeting the IRFU. Pressure works.

backrower8
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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by backrower8 »

mildlyinterested wrote:
January 8th, 2021, 9:00 am
LH Prop
Cian Healy(33/Belvedere/Clontarf)
Ed Byrne(27/Clongowes/UCD)
Peter Dooley(26/Birr RFC/Lansdowne)

Michael Milne(21/Birr RFC-Roscrea/UCD)
Marcus Hanan(20/Clane RFC/Old Belvedere)
Jack Boyle(18/St. Michaels/UCD)

TH Prop
Michael Bent(34)
Tadhg Furlong(27/New Ross RFC/Clontarf) - injured
Andrew Porter(24/St. Andrews/UCD)
Vakh Abdaladze(24/Coolmine RFC/Clontarf) - injured

Tom Clarkson(20/Blackrock/DUFC)
Greg McGrath(23/Wexford RFC/Lansdowne)
Tom Connolly(21/Galwegians RFC/DUFC)

Hooker
Sean Cronin(34)
James Tracy(29/Newbridge/UCD)
Ronan Kelleher(22/St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
Dan Sheehan(21/Clongowes/Lansdowne)

John McKee(20/Campbell/Old Belvedere) - injured
Lee Barron(19/St. Michaels/DUFC)

Lock
Scott Fardy(36)
Devin Toner(34/Castleknock/Lansdowne)
Ross Molony(26/St. Michaels/UCD) -
James Ryan(24/St. Michaels/UCD)
Jack Dunne(22/St. Michaels/DUFC)
Ryan Baird(21/St. Michaels/DUFC)

Charlie Ryan(21/Blackrock/UCD) - injured
Brian Deeny(20/Wexford RFC/Clontarf) - injured
Joe McCarthy(19/Blackrock/DUFC)
Mark Morrissey(18/Blackrock/UCD)

Backrow
Rhys Ruddock(30/Exile/St. Marys)
Jack Conan(28/St. Gerards/Old Belvedere)
Josh Van Der Flier(27/Wesley/UCD)
Dan Leavy(26/St. Michaels/UCD)
Josh Murphy(25/St. Michaels/UCD)
Will Connors(24/Clongowes/UCD)
Max Deegan(23/St. Michaels/Lansdowne) - injured
Caelan Doris(22/Blackrock/DUFC)
Scott Penny(21/St. Michaels/UCD) - injured

Martin Moloney(21/Athy RFC/Old Belvedere)
Sean O'Brien(20/Blackrock/UCD)
Alex Soroka(19/Belvedere/Clontarf)
Mark Hernan(20/St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
Will Hickey(19/St. Michaels/UCD)

Scrumhalf
Jamie Gibson Park(28)
Luke McGrath(27/St. Michaels/UCD)
Rowan Osborne(24/Clongowes/DUFC)
Hugh O'Sullivan(22/Belvedere/Clontarf)

Paddy Patterson(22/Blackrock/UCD)
Cormac Foley(20/St. Gerards/Lansdowne)

Outhalf
Jonathan Sexton(35/St. Marys/St. Marys)
Ross Byrne(25/St. Michaels/UCD)
Ciaran Frawley(23/Skerries RFC/UCD) - injured
Harry Byrne(21/St. Michaels/Lansdowne)

David Hawkshaw(21/Belvedere/Clontarf)
Tim Corkery(19/Kilkenny RFC/UCD)
Charlie Tector(18/Kilkenny/Lansdowne)

Centre
Robbie Henshaw(27)
Rory O'Loughlin(26/St. Michaels/UCD) - injured
Garry Ringrose(25/Blackrock/UCD) - injured
Conor O'Brien(24/Mullingar RFC/Clontarf) - injured
Tommy O'Brien(22/Blackrock/UCD - injured

Liam Turner(21/Blackrock/DUFC) - Academy Yr 2
Jamie Osborne(19/Naas/Naas RFC)
Marcus Kiely(19/Newbridge/Naas RFC)
Karl Martin(18/Boyne RFC/Old Belvedere)

Back Three
Dave Kearney(31/Clongowes/Lansdowne)
James Lowe(28) - injured
Adam Byrne(26/Naas RFC/UCD) - injured
Cian Kelleher(26/St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
Hugo Keenan(24/Blackrock/UCD)
Jimmy O'Brien(24/Newbridge/UCD)
Jordan Larmour(23/St. Andrews/St. Marys)

Michael Silvester(22/Clongowes/DUFC) - injured
Aaron O'Sullivan(21/Exile/Blackrock) - injured
Andrew Smith(20/St. Michaels/Clontarf)
Niall Comerford(20/Blackrock/UCD)
Max O'Reilly(20/St. Gerards/DUFC)
Chris Cosgrave(19/St. Michaels/UCD)
Shane Mallon(18/Longford RFC-Roscrea/UCD)


40% from 2 schools; 25% from 1 school - not under the control of LBIRFU/IRFU + risk-safety profile of rugby for Schoolboys = Serious Danger for Leinster, Irish rugby and the tournaments we play in.

Workhorse
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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by Workhorse »

backrower8 wrote:
January 9th, 2021, 9:35 am
mildlyinterested wrote:
January 8th, 2021, 9:00 am
LH Prop
Cian Healy(33/Belvedere/Clontarf)
Ed Byrne(27/Clongowes/UCD)
Peter Dooley(26/Birr RFC/Lansdowne)

Michael Milne(21/Birr RFC-Roscrea/UCD)
Marcus Hanan(20/Clane RFC/Old Belvedere)
Jack Boyle(18/St. Michaels/UCD)

TH Prop
Michael Bent(34)
Tadhg Furlong(27/New Ross RFC/Clontarf) - injured
Andrew Porter(24/St. Andrews/UCD)
Vakh Abdaladze(24/Coolmine RFC/Clontarf) - injured

Tom Clarkson(20/Blackrock/DUFC)
Greg McGrath(23/Wexford RFC/Lansdowne)
Tom Connolly(21/Galwegians RFC/DUFC)

Hooker
Sean Cronin(34)
James Tracy(29/Newbridge/UCD)
Ronan Kelleher(22/St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
Dan Sheehan(21/Clongowes/Lansdowne)

John McKee(20/Campbell/Old Belvedere) - injured
Lee Barron(19/St. Michaels/DUFC)

Lock
Scott Fardy(36)
Devin Toner(34/Castleknock/Lansdowne)
Ross Molony(26/St. Michaels/UCD) -
James Ryan(24/St. Michaels/UCD)
Jack Dunne(22/St. Michaels/DUFC)
Ryan Baird(21/St. Michaels/DUFC)

Charlie Ryan(21/Blackrock/UCD) - injured
Brian Deeny(20/Wexford RFC/Clontarf) - injured
Joe McCarthy(19/Blackrock/DUFC)
Mark Morrissey(18/Blackrock/UCD)

Backrow
Rhys Ruddock(30/Exile/St. Marys)
Jack Conan(28/St. Gerards/Old Belvedere)
Josh Van Der Flier(27/Wesley/UCD)
Dan Leavy(26/St. Michaels/UCD)
Josh Murphy(25/St. Michaels/UCD)
Will Connors(24/Clongowes/UCD)
Max Deegan(23/St. Michaels/Lansdowne) - injured
Caelan Doris(22/Blackrock/DUFC)
Scott Penny(21/St. Michaels/UCD) - injured

Martin Moloney(21/Athy RFC/Old Belvedere)
Sean O'Brien(20/Blackrock/UCD)
Alex Soroka(19/Belvedere/Clontarf)
Mark Hernan(20/St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
Will Hickey(19/St. Michaels/UCD)

Scrumhalf
Jamie Gibson Park(28)
Luke McGrath(27/St. Michaels/UCD)
Rowan Osborne(24/Clongowes/DUFC)
Hugh O'Sullivan(22/Belvedere/Clontarf)

Paddy Patterson(22/Blackrock/UCD)
Cormac Foley(20/St. Gerards/Lansdowne)

Outhalf
Jonathan Sexton(35/St. Marys/St. Marys)
Ross Byrne(25/St. Michaels/UCD)
Ciaran Frawley(23/Skerries RFC/UCD) - injured
Harry Byrne(21/St. Michaels/Lansdowne)

David Hawkshaw(21/Belvedere/Clontarf)
Tim Corkery(19/Kilkenny RFC/UCD)
Charlie Tector(18/Kilkenny/Lansdowne)

Centre
Robbie Henshaw(27)
Rory O'Loughlin(26/St. Michaels/UCD) - injured
Garry Ringrose(25/Blackrock/UCD) - injured
Conor O'Brien(24/Mullingar RFC/Clontarf) - injured
Tommy O'Brien(22/Blackrock/UCD - injured

Liam Turner(21/Blackrock/DUFC) - Academy Yr 2
Jamie Osborne(19/Naas/Naas RFC)
Marcus Kiely(19/Newbridge/Naas RFC)
Karl Martin(18/Boyne RFC/Old Belvedere)

Back Three
Dave Kearney(31/Clongowes/Lansdowne)
James Lowe(28) - injured
Adam Byrne(26/Naas RFC/UCD) - injured
Cian Kelleher(26/St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
Hugo Keenan(24/Blackrock/UCD)
Jimmy O'Brien(24/Newbridge/UCD)
Jordan Larmour(23/St. Andrews/St. Marys)

Michael Silvester(22/Clongowes/DUFC) - injured
Aaron O'Sullivan(21/Exile/Blackrock) - injured
Andrew Smith(20/St. Michaels/Clontarf)
Niall Comerford(20/Blackrock/UCD)
Max O'Reilly(20/St. Gerards/DUFC)
Chris Cosgrave(19/St. Michaels/UCD)
Shane Mallon(18/Longford RFC-Roscrea/UCD)


40% from 2 schools; 25% from 1 school - not under the control of LBIRFU/IRFU + risk-safety profile of rugby for Schoolboys = Serious Danger for Leinster, Irish rugby and the tournaments we play in.
What is any of that supposed to mean

backrower8
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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by backrower8 »

What it says.

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CiaranIrl
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Joined: April 27th, 2009, 11:23 am
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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by CiaranIrl »

Please don't start another conversation about school. PLEASE.
“As you all know first prize is a Cadillac El Dorado. Anyone wanna see second prize? Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired.”

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
Posts: 6081
Joined: April 19th, 2017, 9:56 am

Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by mildlyinterested »

CiaranIrl wrote:
January 11th, 2021, 9:43 am
Please don't start another conversation about school. PLEASE.
:clap:

backrower8
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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by backrower8 »

CiaranIrl wrote:
January 11th, 2021, 9:43 am
Please don't start another conversation about school. PLEASE.
As I am sure you know, but sense an opportunity for a few lols, It’s about a systemic risk to Irish rugby. But carry on, you’re a gas man/woman all the same.

Workhorse
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Posts: 121
Joined: December 23rd, 2017, 11:59 pm

Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by Workhorse »

CiaranIrl wrote:
January 11th, 2021, 9:43 am
Please don't start another conversation about school. PLEASE.
Apologies I highlighted specific parts specifically to try avoid the school shite but I guess the poster had somehow warped their school opinions into other random points

backrower8
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Location: Blackrock

Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by backrower8 »

Workhorse wrote:
January 11th, 2021, 2:05 pm
CiaranIrl wrote:
January 11th, 2021, 9:43 am
Please don't start another conversation about school. PLEASE.
Apologies I highlighted specific parts specifically to try avoid the school shite but I guess the poster had somehow warped their school opinions into other random points
Yiz are wilfully mangling the point.

The issue is not about the individual schools, it is about the security of the pathways Leinster players are sourced from. If there is a disruption in the pathways supply chain (any serious schools head injury) that would lead to a contagion effect... a bit like say a virus or Brexit. Wakey, wakey - these risks are real.

If we really don't care to consider where players are coming from, then the logical thing for this forum to do is to ask Mildly to never reference which school (or club for that matter) a player has come through in his excellent depth charts again.

Finally, because I am being misrepresented, I will repeat what I have said many times before over the last year...my belief is threefold:

1: Redouble efforts at every level, especially at World Rugby level (via IRFU), to make the game safer and less injurious (thereby increasing player retention rates);

2: radically broaden the source of pro players in Leinster and Ireland (and yes I am aware that one is part of the other) to reduce risk of overdependency that currently exists.

3: that unofficial sub-academies like the main supplier to Leinster (half the size and double the output of the next best; multiple times the output of other large schools) is a BUBBLE that will burst and is NOT in the best interests of either the pupils or the school long term.

This last point should be read that, while I am proud of the achievements of players and school alike, I see it as a flawed and dangerous model that needs to be unwound.

After that, anyone who thinks that I am bragging about the place has significant cognitive issues to address. It's a serious and genuine risk to LR that nobody here is prepared to admit because nobbling the poster is the mob rule here.

riocard911
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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by riocard911 »

To backrower8:

I think you've made your point most cogently - not just now but also in the past. The danger you are pointing out is real, IMO. I'm sorry, if you feel people on here are dismissing your warnings à la Cassandra. I certainly don't.

backrower8
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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by backrower8 »

riocard911 wrote:
January 11th, 2021, 5:50 pm
To backrower8:

I think you've made your point most cogently - not just now but also in the past. The danger you are pointing out is real, IMO. I'm sorry, if you feel people on here are dismissing your warnings à la Cassandra. I certainly don't.
Thank you.

I am aware that how I make my points, and the flag I originally wrapped them in, contributed to the stance of some towards me. That is understandable. I don't mind the ribbing once I feel the substance of what I am saying in this regard strikes a chord with some here. Though imperfect like myself, this group and certainly some contributors, are influential stakeholders in the LR eco-system.

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