New contracts for coaching ticket

[carlow man]

Do we need to bring in a mental coach?? Not a joke but we seem to be hitting a bit of brick wall mentally in these huge games. We looked very nervous yesterday and have done so before in knock out matches. Are we able to handle being huge favourites? Can we cope with noise from the opposition fans making it as hostile as possible. Why are we playing below ourselves when we look so calm and assured just days before? Do we spend enough time on the mental prep or too much time on the training pitch running ourselves into the ground? A lot of lads seemed like the panicked in the big moments yesterday.

[OTT]

In their contract they would have to promise us the double every year. It’s our entitlement.

[dougie the flanker]

Denis Leamy confirmed to Munster
3 year contract

[D4surfer]

Denis Leamy confirmed to Munster
3 year contract

https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/leamy-depa ... ter-rugby/

[the spoofer]

Denis Leamy confirmed to Munster
3 year contract

I wonder how long his contract with Leinster was. Would seem odd if it was only a 1 year contract which he signed ahead of the 21/22 season. He was actually announced as contact coach in October 21.

[dougie the flanker]

Denis Leamy confirmed to Munster
3 year contract

I wonder how long his contract with Leinster was. Would seem odd if it was only a 1 year contract which he signed ahead of the 21/22 season. He was actually announced as contact coach in October 21.

I wonder if he was seeing our his 'original' contract from 2019/20 which maybe was upgraded but not extended when he joined the senior team.

[ronk]

Contract probably not relevant.

IRFU isn't going to pay compensation to itself and wouldn't tell us it if did.

[the spoofer]

Contract probably not relevant.

IRFU isn't going to pay compensation to itself and wouldn't tell us it if did.

Yeah, it just seems weird that he'd have either a 1 year contract or no contract. I assume we will never know.

[backrower8]

Playing Devils Advocate [e.g. Let me say upfront that I don't actually believe this myself lest I be accused of being on a wind up] but is there an argument about Stuart Lancaster's ruthlessness when the pressure is on.

At England his time was marked by creating a really strong culture on professionalism and high performance, playing amazing rugby, winning all the less important matches and winning them extremely well but ultimately falling short on the big trophy occasions.

Now the obvious argument is that Leinster have won a Heineken Cup in his first year and have won the URC four times in a row. But the Saracens final defeat, the Saracens QF defeat, the La Rochelle SF defeat and the La Rochelle Final defeat have been the big games Leinster wanted to win. Against Saracens and La Rochelle, he (Cullen?) wasn't able to avenge the first defeat. Losing once happens but twice implies no lesson learned or no improvement. Also no way of stopping Will Skelton who was in 3 of the 4 defeats. There can't be many players that have inflicted punishment like that on Leinster in recent years.

I've a few friends from UK that had made the comparison to his time in England to me. As I say, I don't really think thats the case myself but thought it was interesting take I hadn't seen suggested.

Interesting,

My take would be that the coaching ticket have given Leinster players a serious impressive skill set and off that they have empowered them to make big calls on the pitch. Most of the time it works but naturally sometimes we come up short. We tend to be spoilt as Leinster fans in that we have an expectation of winning leagues and being there or there abouts in Europe come the end of the season, to guarantee that (which they have been able to do) season in season out is beyond most other clubs dreams or expectations, we have a great squad because these coaches have built that squad, the young lads can come in for big games because the young lads get the exposure that allows them to come in again that’s due to the coaching ticket backing them regularly.

Leinster want to win both competitions so unless they do that each and every season the game they lose in either/or both will ultimately be the big games Leinster wanted to win. You try and get to the show like everyone else and at the end one team will win and everyone else in the competition has failed, so that would make the coach of every club who doesn’t win everything every year lack a ruthless streak. So basically every coach lacks a ruthless streak if this point was accurate.

I think Lancaster is a breath of fresh air, I think he improves every player he works with, I think he has a very good way of communicating with reporters and fans alike. The players love him. He’s got an enormous amount of humility and like Schmidt before him he helps to give us a fighting chance to win a European Cup each season which is all we can ask for as fans. His time will come to an end here eventually like every coach but I hope he sticks around for a few years because that can only help our chances of success.


Welcome to the forum btw always enjoy reading your posts went I delve into Munster fans, your posts always stand out on there and that’s a compliment.

I think 'dougie the flanker' is on the right track.

I wouldn't frame it around Lancaster's weaknesses, but I do think there is a need for a hands-on forwards coach (more so than Leo) who is both compatible and on a par with Stu in coaching terms (a lot more than McBryde appears to be).

After 5 (successful) years I think there is both a need and opportunity to reformulate the senior coaching & leadership ticket - Leocaster + Johnny. This is despite the fact that we already have movement below, in Felipe & Leamy moving on. The real chiefs are the senior coach and DOR and Captain, and it needs a change at this stage. This is based on a combination of longevity/repetitiveness after 5 years and the manner of our (different but similar) losses in the competition over the last 4 years.

I get and agree that we should not expect to win Europe every year, but we have gone out with limp performances to comparable teams in 4 consecutive years. Also, the competition and winners have not been of the same quality in 2020, 2021 or 2022. Toulouse were the exception in a limited crop last year, and we were supposed to be it this year.

4 Years. Madness is repeating the same formula and getting the same result.

Yes, it was a loss by a very fine margin, but such was the expectation of a win and the nature of the loss that, after 5 years later, with no notable signings other than Ngati and Jenkins, this team/ the top 30 needs a change at the top and not another year of the Leo-Stuart-Johnny triumvirate. The wider squad is doing superbly as evidenced by S. Africa and the last Munster game.

That said, I don't see that happening. Johnny is locked-in. Stuart too. There is movement at a level below in the coaches and a vacancy at the top/ CEO. I would like Leo to secure Leinster's future development as a club in the role of CEO, with Stuart becoming the clear #1 (not shared #1) and the role of forward's coach given to a genuine #2 who can graft on some set-piece grit to our all-court game. Robin McBryde looks like the odd man out to this armchair general's perception.

I don't know who that #2 forwards coach is, but someone in the - Paulie, Donnchadh Ryan, Jeremy Davidson, John Mitchell mould. A bit of true grit that marries well with Stu's masterplan style of play.

There are other structural issues in our loss, such as the lack of regular pressure matches, the huge level of team rotation due to our involvement in the Ireland squad, the fact that we rarely play away in hostile environemnts - but the big piece is a fresh voice at the top with a skill-set that will build on what we have.

[The Doc]

SOB announced as contact coach

Sent from my LE2123 using Tapatalk

[dougie the flanker]

There are other structural issues in our loss, such as the lack of regular pressure matches, the huge level of team rotation due to our involvement in the Ireland squad, the fact that we rarely play away in hostile environemnts

Be careful what you wish for. I think we will these two issues vanish next year as the Bok teams bed down properly and above all else that we no longer have a clash between club and country matches.

I think that it has massive potential to hurt Leinster though as its so much harder for the conveyor belt to keep moving when there aren't those natural matches against Cardiff, Benetton, Glasgow 2nd string teams for the kids to play in. I can see the days of Leinster playing 60+ players a season starting to dwindle down a bit. Even the new Heineken Cup structure being reduced to 8 matches instead of 9 means to reach the final means that the front liners are able to play more in the URC.

That also means the 'weaker' teams are harder to beat as well so I suspect for the traditional top teams in the URC its harder to fight on two fronts. Maybe thats good for Leinster. They might end up with the odd 2nd place finish but maybe a European winners medal as well.

I don't know if its good change or bad change but there's definitely change afoot.

[OTT]

https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/obrien-ret ... lls-coach/

Edit: Doc beat me to it.

[Hoofhearted]

SOB announced as contact coach

Sent from my LE2123 using Tapatalk

My initial reaction was GREAT!

Seconds later I was considering if this is such a smart move? Sean has no top level coaching experience.

[dougie the flanker]

There's a nice new generation of young Irish coaches now starting to emerge.

Paul O'Connell - Ireland
Denis Leamy - Munster
Sean O'Brien - Leinster
Donnacha Ryan - La Rochelle
James Coughlan - Toulon
Jerry Flannery - Harlequins
Ronan O'Gara - La Rochelle
Felix Jones - South Africa
John Muldoon - Bristol

And I'm missing out on plenty more.

[dougie the flanker]

SOB announced as contact coach

Sent from my LE2123 using Tapatalk

My initial reaction was GREAT!

Seconds later I was considering if this is such a smart move? Sean has no top level coaching experience.

There's such a fine line between having a pathway and jobs for the boys. Its tended to work fairly well for Leinster so far - Leo Cullen, Guy Easterby, Felipe Contepomi, John Fogarty - hopefully this will be similar.

[SoupyNorman]

There's a nice new generation of young Irish coaches now starting to emerge.

Paul O'Connell - Ireland
Denis Leamy - Munster
Sean O'Brien - Leinster
Donnacha Ryan - La Rochelle
James Coughlan - Toulon
Jerry Flannery - Harlequins
Ronan O'Gara - La Rochelle
Felix Jones - South Africa
John Muldoon - Bristol

And I'm missing out on plenty more.

Leo Cullen?

Well he is 10 months younger than O'Gara.

[paddyor]

Playing Devils Advocate [e.g. Let me say upfront that I don't actually believe this myself lest I be accused of being on a wind up] but is there an argument about Stuart Lancaster's ruthlessness when the pressure is on.

At England his time was marked by creating a really strong culture on professionalism and high performance, playing amazing rugby, winning all the less important matches and winning them extremely well but ultimately falling short on the big trophy occasions.

Now the obvious argument is that Leinster have won a Heineken Cup in his first year and have won the URC four times in a row. But the Saracens final defeat, the Saracens QF defeat, the La Rochelle SF defeat and the La Rochelle Final defeat have been the big games Leinster wanted to win. Against Saracens and La Rochelle, he (Cullen?) wasn't able to avenge the first defeat. Losing once happens but twice implies no lesson learned or no improvement. Also no way of stopping Will Skelton who was in 3 of the 4 defeats. There can't be many players that have inflicted punishment like that on Leinster in recent years.

I've a few friends from UK that had made the comparison to his time in England to me. As I say, I don't really think thats the case myself but thought it was interesting take I hadn't seen suggested.

Circling a target a bit here. Leaving aside the losses in the qf and sf, losing a final in England to an English team and in France to a French team is par for the course I think. Not saying it didn't sting but I think you have to have some perspective.

The saracens qf defeat is probably the worst of them as it came with a once in a decade scrum destruction.

[dougie the flanker]

I don't know who that #2 forwards coach is, but someone in the - Paulie, Donnchadh Ryan, Jeremy Davidson, John Mitchell mould. A bit of true grit that marries well with Stu's masterplan style of play.

He's obviously not a forwards coach but there's a really low hanging piece of fruit out there in Paul Gustard. Won 2 x Six Nations as Assistant Coach at England. Had a ropey time of it as a Head Coach at Harlequins but landed the Rainbow Cup a few months after joining Benetton as an Assistant Coach. All respect to Benetton but he could do far more at a club like Leinster. I had hoped Munster would consider him as a Johann van Graan replacement.

[dougie the flanker]

Playing Devils Advocate [e.g. Let me say upfront that I don't actually believe this myself lest I be accused of being on a wind up] but is there an argument about Stuart Lancaster's ruthlessness when the pressure is on.

At England his time was marked by creating a really strong culture on professionalism and high performance, playing amazing rugby, winning all the less important matches and winning them extremely well but ultimately falling short on the big trophy occasions.

Now the obvious argument is that Leinster have won a Heineken Cup in his first year and have won the URC four times in a row. But the Saracens final defeat, the Saracens QF defeat, the La Rochelle SF defeat and the La Rochelle Final defeat have been the big games Leinster wanted to win. Against Saracens and La Rochelle, he (Cullen?) wasn't able to avenge the first defeat. Losing once happens but twice implies no lesson learned or no improvement. Also no way of stopping Will Skelton who was in 3 of the 4 defeats. There can't be many players that have inflicted punishment like that on Leinster in recent years.

I've a few friends from UK that had made the comparison to his time in England to me. As I say, I don't really think thats the case myself but thought it was interesting take I hadn't seen suggested.

Circling a target a bit here. Leaving aside the losses in the qf and sf, losing a final in England to an English team and in France to a French team is par for the course I think. Not saying it didn't sting but I think you have to have some perspective.

The saracens qf defeat is probably the worst of them as it came with a once in a decade scrum destruction.

Yea thats fair Paddy. As I say, I'm intentionally just putting it out there for discussion. Leo and Stuart are clearly top coaches and I reckon the pair of them if inclined to do so (e.g. Leo doesn't go down CEO route) could have a career not unlike Warren Gatland and Shaun Edwards winning at club, country and Lions level together over the space of 10-15 years.

[paddyor]

There are other structural issues in our loss, such as the lack of regular pressure matches, the huge level of team rotation due to our involvement in the Ireland squad, the fact that we rarely play away in hostile environemnts - but the big piece is a fresh voice at the top with a skill-set that will build on what we have.

The bolded are a little at odds with each other. A lot of these guys have 9 test games this season. You can't really replicate a final like that. Doris was the big surprise for me. First time I've ever thought he looked a little out of place in a match. He's stepped into every level of the game like he belonged. Not putting it all on him, just by way of example. It happens.