toulon again!

[goreyguy]

A well coached leinster side would have won that by 10.

Sadly we arent that especially in attack.

[Keith]

Small margins. We just took the double champs of Europe and most expensively assembled team in the history of Rugby into extra time. in France. In a euro semi.

All with the worst coach since kidney, no form, missing sexto isa and bod, and and with no settled 10 12 13 combo.

Yes it is galling to lose. But hey, some credit here lads.

Also with a ref who doesn't know that the tackler has to release before you challenge for the ball and that you can't push before the ball is put into the scrum.

Next year is our year. Believe.

[goreyguy]

Small margins. We just took the double champs of Europe and most expensively assembled team in the history of Rugby into extra time. in France. In a euro semi.

All with the worst coach since kidney, no form, missing sexto isa and bod, and and with no settled 10 12 13 combo.

Yes it is galling to lose. But hey, some credit here lads.

the players get all the credit for performing on the big occasion, it's to be expected from such a talented, experienced group.

reality is they aren't well coached and we couldn't overcome that barrier today.

how is the next generation of backs going to develop when they are simply coached poorly?

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Fair play to everyone involved for fixing the set piece and defence. Really surprised they managed that in 1/2 weeks and even taking the weather into account our defence was in a different league to the last month or so. Leo had their lineout figured out and Jordi in particular was unexpectedly brilliant in that regard. He'd a great game aside from the knock on. We didn't lack physicality at 6 as I'd feared despite the game being narrower because of the weather. They may have had lots of possession but I didn't think Dippy would change that, was more thinking of halting their momentum, but we were brilliant in defence and really good at the breakdown on our own ball, at least for the first half an hour anyway. I know Armitage didn't start but in general we were much better than a year ago.

Our attack was muck. Pure and simple. I can't even remember us getting the ball to the wings and Te'o was seriously underused until relatively late on. We obviously did a lot of good work over the last week but this was a bridge too far. In fairness, I don't really care about the first half because the conditions were obviously awful but we should have been much better in the second.

As many have said, 10 and 12 just didn't work. I have no idea why we played through Madigan all the time, especially once his game started to fall apart in open play. Jimmy offered zero control from ten which is bizarre really but I wouldn't blame him for not taking responsibility, it was obviously part of the game plan to move it to Mads and we persisted with it when it was clearly a mistake. Since October or so I've failed to understand why we have two playmakers and yet don't move the ball wide and today was another example of it, even worse than usual actually because Mads had so much of the ball with options to choose from. In fairness to Jimmy he really stepped up in defence and his kicks to touch were excellent.

It probably didn't make much of a difference in the end but thought it was stupid to bring Strauss on when we did. Cronin was growing into the game and getting his hands on the ball a lot, and his darts were great. Strauss promptly lost his first throw in a great position. To be fair to him we still got it to extra time and he was brilliant both out of touch and around the pitch (particularly getting over the ball) but still, it smacked of a pre planned decision that we were making no matter what.

Hard luck to all involved, we're not as far off being a good side as I'd feared. Just goes to show how important the basics are really.

One last thing, Barnes is an absolute clown. It's staggering that he's getting away with that kind of performance. I used to like him, the odd dodgy call but generally fine. He's brutal now though and it's not sour grapes because I'm talking about both sides. What did Botha have to do to get a yellow? He should have at least been on thin ice after the offside with Healy but surely that should have been a yellow there and then? Armitage got two pens when he hadn't released the tackled player, and one of which had followed four breakdowns where Toulon went flying off their feet...I'm still aghast at how obvious they were. He gave us a scrum penalty when SOB decided to be a front rower for a few seconds. Gave us a penalty when Healy was well off his feet. Missed a crooked feed that actually bounced off Strauss it was so bent, and one from Toulon where TIllous-Borde was almost at the same angle as the Leinster pack as he put it in. They're just the calls I can remember now, there were loads more.

[Le Duvet]

My sort of happiness about how we performed has been overcome by how much I'm thinking about how much Toulon were there for the taking.

Completely agree. A combination of pride that we beat them up up front, mixed with "...hang on, they were actually very, very vulnerable...". Leinster of 2012 would have won that game by 10+ points.

Also, yes, for the Habana try Madigan should have passed to the man outside, not attempted a miss pass. We probably would have scored a try. Aside from that, if Te'o had ran a straight line rather than drifted it was an almost certain Leinster try. 14 point swing.

A microcosm of our fall off of skills # can' t spot & execute an overlap, instead,,,,,,,kick...its a recurring theme that has stimied us all year. Today's cross kick mania when we could have gone for corners or (god forbid ) kept it it in hand. Precious possession given away even at at times when they were rattled. Wasteful use of ball the forwards had hard won.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

How did Toulon get away with pushing early in the scrums? It was a disgrace. Im proud of the way the lads put it upto the Toulon.

Forgot about that! One in particular was very obvious but they got the pen!

[ceemec]

I thought we were superb tactically today, for the most part. MOC completely bettered Laporte in that department. It might not have been pretty but we swallowed them up. They came at us with everything in the second half and we were still able to engineer two shots at goal and a couple of drop goal efforts to win it.

The players don't go out there and just make it up as they go along. Our game was a very tight one today and suited the conditions perfectly. We also had done a serious amount of homework on Toulon who, despite having 4 IRB Player of the Year nominees in their back line, managed 2 clean breaks in 100 minutes of rugby, one of which was their intercept try. Our linespeed was world class.

I don't really get people calling our attack muck. It was ugly as sin but it was exactly what we wanted to do. The wider backs didn't see the ball much and that was part of the plan. We absorbed their attacks and then won penalties through the pack, grinding them down for territory. We all saw what happened when Toulon kept trying to move the ball. It generally ended with a knock on or them being taken behind the gain line eventually as the ball was just too greasy to move slickly.

And, because I've been as quick as any to question his role, credit to Leo Cullen for today too. His pack were phenomenal. I don't understand why we've been refusing to contest on opposition throws for most of the season given how good we were there today.

[hugonaut]

One last thing, Barnes is an absolute clown. It's staggering that he's getting away with that kind of performance. I used to like him, the odd dodgy call but generally fine. He's brutal now though and it's not sour grapes because I'm talking about both sides. What did Botha have to do to get a yellow? He should have at least been on thin ice after the offside with Healy but surely that should have been a yellow there and then? Armitage got two pens when he hadn't released the tackled player, and one of which had followed four breakdowns where Toulon went flying off their feet...I'm still aghast at how obvious they were. He gave us a scrum penalty when SOB decided to be a front rower for a few seconds. Gave us a penalty when Healy was well off his feet. Missed a crooked feed that actually bounced off Strauss it was so bent, and one from Toulon where TIllous-Borde was almost at the same angle as the Leinster pack as he put it in. They're just the calls I can remember now, there were loads more.

I thought the biggest one was giving Ali Williams a yellow for competing with Toner for the ball in the air and then just a penalty for Suta choking Strauss for about seven or eight seconds. Priorities are all wrong. Didn't really think that the Toner/Williams collision was a penalty, certainly not a yellow card. On the other hand, I probably would have yellow carded Suta, maybe even red-carded him. I've done a fair bit of grappling in my time and being stuck in a well-sunk chokehold is a nasty, panicky experience ... and that's when you know it's part of the sport. That has nothing to do with rugby and should have received a far harsher sanction.

[blaker]

This is going to seem churlish given the bravery of the performance
There was not one bit of MOC in that. We didn't do well because of some tactical tweak or innovative play from the coaching box. In fact, that performance from 9-15 was par for the course this year
There are some matches where you can say we could have nicked that in hindsight. It generally comes down to something unexpected happening - a ref hating the oppo, a previously infallible hooker developing the tips whatever, but because a team has not prepared to exploit that eventuality they can't take advantage. Today wasn't like that. Toulon were fairly unusually poor across the board - any gameplan would have beaten them. It's not like we had to change course mid game to take advantage of something, we just had to exploit bad play. With no backs to speak of we weren't able to do that

People having a go at teo for drifting - our whole focking backline drifted all day.

[All Blacks nil]

, for the Habana try Madigan should have passed to the man outside, not attempted a miss pass. We probably would have scored a try. Aside from that, if Te'o had ran a straight line rather than drifted it was an almost certain Leinster try.

4 on 2ish

Put it through the hands and a possible try. 12/14 point swing.

A terrible choice of pass.

It didn't matter what line te'o ran, Madigan loves that long flat pass and had nothing else on his mind. Unfortunately his decisiveness was what made it easy for Habana to read his mind and ultimately the pass.

[fourthirtythree]

It's interesting how the environment thought they had a better chance of Europe than the league... One of the many things they got right. I was seriously impressed with the defensive organisation cutting down their options so quickly. Toulon may not have had a vintage day today but they are two time champions and in another final in a row: that makes them thue greatest ever European team and you don't have to like them but you have to respect it.

That we made them look so average is a serious credit to the coaching staff and team. Well done. Onwards and upwards. Add Johnno Sefton to that and you may well have had a winning team.

Now the bitching: Barnes is dreadful, can't honestly decide who got the better of that as I am one eyed but even I noticed stuff like Healy off his feet. Havana is a bit of a knob isn't he?

[ceemec]

This is going to seem churlish given the bravery of the performance
There was not one bit of MOC in that. We didn't do well because of some tactical tweak or innovative play from the coaching box. In fact, that performance from 9-15 was par for the course this year
There are some matches where you can say we could have nicked that in hindsight. It generally comes down to something unexpected happening - a ref hating the oppo, a previously infallible hooker developing the tips whatever, but because a team has not prepared to exploit that eventuality they can't take advantage. Today wasn't like that. Toulon were fairly unusually poor across the board - any gameplan would have beaten them. It's not like we had to change course mid game to take advantage of something, we just had to exploit bad play. With no backs to speak of we weren't able to do that

People having a go at teo for drifting - our whole focking backline drifted all day.

Are you really saying that the decision to play such a successful tight, territorial game, the hugely different line speed and defensive approach as well as the shutting down of the narrow inside ball repeatedly was all the players deciding to do them off the cuff? Those are the things that shut Toulon down and got us in front. Toulon were poor but we also made them poor. Our effort when they had the ball was insane.

I'm on the record that I would rather someone else in charge for next season but people claiming that the players decided to come up with all the changes today off their own bat are way off.

[D2 Blue]

Really proud of the effort and heart from Leinster today, so disappointed with the outcome. Feel sorry for poor Mads, he'll blame himself and forget how he made a great kick to bring us level near the end.

My opinions on the whole Toulon thing have been re-inforced, hope ASM do the job in the final.

Edit: also, probably the worst possible result for the tournament organisers with the final in Twickenham. The place will be half empty.

Absolutely took the words out of my mouth.

I was so proud of the lads today. Desperately disappointing to lose but they really got stuck in and if either the penalty or drop goals had gone over it could have been so different. Its disappointing that they didnt have to play to the max of their ability and were still in with a chance until near the end. I agree with others that we offered very little in attack, but looking for positives the defence was good, lineout/scrum excellent, breakdown work very aggressive. Just a pity about the attack.

Well done too to all leinster fans that made it to the game, they really made themselves heard.

Still think that toulon are an unlikeable bunch (not that it will bother anyone) with Jonny W being the honourable exception and I'll be roaring on Clermont in the final. It would be better for the competition to have a new winner than allow toulon continue to dominate.

I hope the team can kick on now and maybe sneak into that last pro12 playoff spot.
Time to clutch at some straws again.

[ceemec]

Unfortunately his decisiveness was what made it easy for Habana to read his mind and ultimately the pass.

That probably played a part. He does love that pass and that try has been coming for a long time. He was blessed not to concede it throwing a similar one off his right hand against Glasgow which is probably a game Toulon would have reviewed to study us.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

One last thing, Barnes is an absolute clown. It's staggering that he's getting away with that kind of performance. I used to like him, the odd dodgy call but generally fine. He's brutal now though and it's not sour grapes because I'm talking about both sides. What did Botha have to do to get a yellow? He should have at least been on thin ice after the offside with Healy but surely that should have been a yellow there and then? Armitage got two pens when he hadn't released the tackled player, and one of which had followed four breakdowns where Toulon went flying off their feet...I'm still aghast at how obvious they were. He gave us a scrum penalty when SOB decided to be a front rower for a few seconds. Gave us a penalty when Healy was well off his feet. Missed a crooked feed that actually bounced off Strauss it was so bent, and one from Toulon where TIllous-Borde was almost at the same angle as the Leinster pack as he put it in. They're just the calls I can remember now, there were loads more.

I thought the biggest one was giving Ali Williams a yellow for competing with Toner for the ball in the air and then just a penalty for Suta choking Strauss for about seven or eight seconds. Priorities are all wrong. Didn't really think that the Toner/Williams collision was a penalty, certainly not a yellow card. On the other hand, I probably would have yellow carded Suta, maybe even red-carded him. I've done a fair bit of grappling in my time and being stuck in a well-sunk chokehold is a nasty, panicky experience ... and that's when you know it's part of the sport. That has nothing to do with rugby and should have received a far harsher sanction.

Had forgotten the Strauss one and I agree, it was disgusting. Barnes was watching it for ages and never said anything, no warning or anything before blowing up. Surely having seen it he had to give a card? I'd have had no qualms giving a red myself, could easily see him being cited for something like that.

[Donny B.]

I don't really get people calling our attack muck. It was ugly as sin but it was exactly what we wanted to do. The wider backs didn't see the ball much and that was part of the plan.

So we went out to be utterly ineffective in attack?

Well, yes, we certainly succeeded in that, but when we had to chase the game we were utterly ill-equipped.

Are you genuinely calling that a victory for the coach?

[Made Of Ale]

This is going to seem churlish given the bravery of the performance
There was not one bit of MOC in that. We didn't do well because of some tactical tweak or innovative play from the coaching box. In fact, that performance from 9-15 was par for the course this year
There are some matches where you can say we could have nicked that in hindsight. It generally comes down to something unexpected happening - a ref hating the oppo, a previously infallible hooker developing the tips whatever, but because a team has not prepared to exploit that eventuality they can't take advantage. Today wasn't like that. Toulon were fairly unusually poor across the board - any gameplan would have beaten them. It's not like we had to change course mid game to take advantage of something, we just had to exploit bad play. With no backs to speak of we weren't able to do that

People having a go at teo for drifting - our whole focking backline drifted all day.

Are you really saying that the decision to play such a successful tight, territorial game, the hugely different line speed and defensive approach as well as the shutting down of the narrow inside ball repeatedly was all the players deciding to do them off the cuff? Those are the things that shut Toulon down and got us in front. Toulon were poor but we also made them poor. Our effort when they had the ball was insane.

I'm on the record that I would rather someone else in charge for next season but people claiming that the players decided to come up with all the changes today off their own bat are way off.

Agreed. There's no logic in blaming MOC for all the crapness and then saying he has nothing to do with it when we play well. That's the best coached we've looked all season. That's not to excuse everything that's gone before, but credit where credit's due today.

Still absolutely gutted we lost that.

[Keith]

I don't really get people calling our attack muck. It was ugly as sin but it was exactly what we wanted to do. The wider backs didn't see the ball much and that was part of the plan.

So we went out to be utterly ineffective in attack?

Well, yes, we certainly succeeded in that, but when we had to chase the game we were utterly ill-equipped.

Are you genuinely calling that a victory for the coach?

I don't think we should be focusing on the attack with the how bad the conditions were. The ball was literally a bar of soap.

[Donny B.]

I don't really get people calling our attack muck. It was ugly as sin but it was exactly what we wanted to do. The wider backs didn't see the ball much and that was part of the plan.

So we went out to be utterly ineffective in attack?

Well, yes, we certainly succeeded in that, but when we had to chase the game we were utterly ill-equipped.

Are you genuinely calling that a victory for the coach?

I don't think we should be focusing on the attack with the how bad the conditions were. The ball was literally a bar of soap.

It dried up in the second half though.

The rain was certainly our friend in the first half though.

In any case our attack is equally sh!t i dry or wat conditions because this is how our coach sends them out to play.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I don't really get people calling our attack muck. It was ugly as sin but it was exactly what we wanted to do. The wider backs didn't see the ball much and that was part of the plan. We absorbed their attacks and then won penalties through the pack, grinding them down for territory. We all saw what happened when Toulon kept trying to move the ball. It generally ended with a knock on or them being taken behind the gain line eventually as the ball was just too greasy to move slickly

I wasn't just talking about today when I said about two playmakers. I think we should have moved them around more as the game opened up but it's not my biggest gripe from today's attack.

The reason I thought it was muck was because of how deep we were and how poorly executed everything was. I'm not saying we had to throw it around but everything seemed off once we tried to moved it at all and that wasn't just down to the conditions. In fact, very early on we had a move that got Te'o on the ball off a lineout. He was hitting hard and fast around the Toulon ten channel, yet had no support. No support off first phase attacking ball from our own lineout that was won cleanly is very very poor.

There were a good few occasions where we moved it wide but the guy ultimately taking the ball on was about 10-15m behind the gainline and ended up running into where the Toulon defenders were. That was in the second half when conditions made handling easier so no need to worry as much about messing up on the gain line.

Look at what everyone did outside Madigan for the intercept. Don't get me wrong, he's at fault for throwing the pass and it was a dreadful mistake to do so, but Murphy and Te'o both drifted away from him. Once Jordi did that I can completely see why Mads felt he had to throw the skip pass, but Te'o wasn't there to pass it to and he should have seen Habana. The alignment was just really poor.

Kearney refused to pass outside him. Now I get that we wanted to be conservative and it worked up to a point, but he also got smashed back a couple of times with better options.

Given that we didn't get close to scoring apart from off the maul, I'm not sure how you could think our attack was alright. Never exposed Basteraud, never did anything when they were down to 14. Plus our set piece gave us the perfect platform to attack, not like we were constantly on the back foot. Of course that happened at times but we had plenty of opportunities to do something positive with the ball and didn't.