Leinster vs Munster March 29th

[johng]

I do like that they still call it Lansdowne Road.

Me too. I can't be doing with all that confusing insurance company chyte.

[simonokeeffe]

one of those mediocre wingers coached Ireland for 2 years too many after he blew a couple of grand slams

very poor from the league though not to give this to Nigel Owens in the first place, its undeniably the biggest league match of this season (and every season) so the top ref should get it. but no that humdinger of Treviso v Edinburgh needed him more

I trust Rolland to be professional enough to ref the game fairly but its all the more column inches for Munster Fans to wrap around their burning torches

[TerenureJim]

one of those mediocre wingers coached Ireland for 2 years too many after he blew a couple of grand slams

very poor from the league though not to give this to Nigel Owens in the first place, its undeniably the biggest league match of this season (and every season) so the top ref should get it. but no that humdinger of Treviso v Edinburgh needed him more

I trust Rolland to be professional enough to ref the game fairly but its all the more column inches for Munster Fans to wrap around their burning torches

In fairness "Rollers" is regularly recognised as being the top ref. I don't think there's any issue in him covering this one, as with Owens he allows a free flowing entertaining game and tries to be sympathetic to the game in applying the spirit rather than the letter of the law which is what any decent ref should do.

[Xanthippe]

From Munsterfans

"Can someone please explain to me how is it a guy from Leinster, who played for Leinster, can referee a Leinster game? I don't understand how that's possible. How they can make that decision with any justification is beyond me.
Anything else they'd like to throw our way?
Joe Schmidt the TMO? Shane Horgan the 4th official? "

"Rolland is going to award the Pro 12 trophy to Brian O'Driscoll at half time and then lock Munster in their dressing room so BOD can run in a few tries unopposed. Dave Kearney will get run down by the corner flag and fail to add to his tally for the season."

No doubt they were as outraged by the Munster Branch TMO for the Treviso game?
Leave that shite where it belongs!

To be fair we were all fairly outraged with the Munster TMO in the reverse fixture last season

[cormac]

IRFU refs doing the derbies is nothing new, is ti? How many times have Clancy and Fitzgibbon reffed this fixture.

Anyway, Rolland is a good ref, so no complaints from either of my split personalities.

Don't recall Clancy or Fitzgibbon ever reffing this fixture.

2013-14: Poite, Rolland
2012-13: Hodges, Owens
2011-12: Gauzere, Owens
2010-11: Garces, Small, Owens
2009-10: McDowell, Poite, Owens
2008-09: McDowell, Berdos, Owens
2007-08: Barnes, White
2006-07: McDowell, Lewis
2005-06: McDowell, McKay, Jutge
2004-05: Watkins, Lewis, Whitehouse

[[Jackass]]

For what it's worth (and I mentioned this in the Munster thread at the weekend), for the simple reason of not putting an official in an awkward position (and not suggesting bias), why can't they have officials from different unions, let alone different clubs. I think Rolland is a great ref (one of the best in the world) and wouldn't question his experience or professionalism to be anything other than impartial (remember, his credibility and refereeing career is on the line, which I doubt he would compromise to give Leinster a few extra Pro12 points), but he shouldn't be refereeing the game.

I don't think it happens in European competitions, so it can be done.

Munster were given two very controversial tries at the weekend, one was definitely forward and the TMO missed it, the second was more than likely a try, but I don't think it could be seen and also there was an earlier knock on and the TMO was definitely not certain as he passed it to the ref who immediately passed it back, but awarded it anyway, although to be fair I don't think the ref asked him to check that so he couldn't really adjudicate on that, but if it was anyone else you'd just think, wow what an incompetent TMO, but when he's from the branch of the team he's officiating, it does raise eyebrows. I'm not suggesting that TMO was anything other than doing his best and was impartial, but he's put in a situation where he makes two pretty big mistakes and they go towards the Munster branch he's part of, it looks suspicious and just isn't in the interest of the sport.

[Cianostays]

For what it's worth (and I mentioned this in the Munster thread at the weekend), for the simple reason of not putting an official in an awkward position (and not suggesting bias), why can't they have officials from different unions, let alone different clubs. I think Rolland is a great ref (one of the best in the world) and wouldn't question his experience or professionalism to be anything other than impartial (remember, his credibility and refereeing career is on the line, which I doubt he would compromise to give Leinster a few extra Pro12 points), but he shouldn't be refereeing the game.

I don't think it happens in European competitions, so it can be done.

Munster were given two very controversial tries at the weekend, one was definitely forward and the TMO missed it, the second was more than likely a try, but I don't think it could be seen and also there was an earlier knock on and the TMO was definitely not certain as he passed it to the ref who immediately passed it back, but awarded it anyway, although to be fair I don't think the ref asked him to check that so he couldn't really adjudicate on that, but if it was anyone else you'd just think, wow what an incompetent TMO, but when he's from the branch of the team he's officiating, it does raise eyebrows. I'm not suggesting that TMO was anything other than doing his best and was impartial, but he's put in a situation where he makes two pretty big mistakes and they go towards the Munster branch he's part of, it looks suspicious and just isn't in the interest of the sport.

I'd agree with you that it puts Rolland in a very awkward position but I'm sure he'll cope. It does seem farcical that there is nobody else, of a suitable standard, who can ref this game other than a former Leinster player. The paranoia on MF at times can be staggering but I can't say I'd blame any Munster Fan for being annoyed at this scenario.

[leinster4life13]

When the ref is a worry for you, you know your team is in trouble.

[Danthefan]

For what it's worth (and I mentioned this in the Munster thread at the weekend), for the simple reason of not putting an official in an awkward position (and not suggesting bias), why can't they have officials from different unions, let alone different clubs.

We were supposed to have a French ref, he got injured. Rolland only filled in at short notice.

[Oldschool]

For what it's worth (and I mentioned this in the Munster thread at the weekend), for the simple reason of not putting an official in an awkward position (and not suggesting bias), why can't they have officials from different unions, let alone different clubs. I think Rolland is a great ref (one of the best in the world) and wouldn't question his experience or professionalism to be anything other than impartial (remember, his credibility and refereeing career is on the line, which I doubt he would compromise to give Leinster a few extra Pro12 points), but he shouldn't be refereeing the game.

I don't think it happens in European competitions, so it can be done.

Munster were given two very controversial tries at the weekend, one was definitely forward and the TMO missed it, the second was more than likely a try, but I don't think it could be seen and also there was an earlier knock on and the TMO was definitely not certain as he passed it to the ref who immediately passed it back, but awarded it anyway, although to be fair I don't think the ref asked him to check that so he couldn't really adjudicate on that, but if it was anyone else you'd just think, wow what an incompetent TMO, but when he's from the branch of the team he's officiating, it does raise eyebrows. I'm not suggesting that TMO was anything other than doing his best and was impartial, but he's put in a situation where he makes two pretty big mistakes and they go towards the Munster branch he's part of, it looks suspicious and just isn't in the interest of the sport.

I'd agree with you that it puts Rolland in a very awkward position but I'm sure he'll cope. It does seem farcical that there is nobody else, of a suitable standard, who can ref this game other than a former Leinster player. The paranoia on MF at times can be staggering but I can't say I'd blame any Munster Fan for being annoyed at this scenario.

True, but just because they're paranoid doesn't WE are not out to get them.

[Dave Cahill]

I'd worry if Clancy or Fitzgibbon were in charge. Not because they're from Munster though, I wouldn't want them in charge because they're extremely poor referees. If we were playing the 'Wipe Munster from the map and kill all the men women and children in the province' XV, I still wouldn't want them to referee it.

I'd have no problem if Lacey were refereeing on Saturday, he's quality - as is Rolland.

[fourthirtythree]

...it's touch judges, TMOs and citing officers you want to watch out for in terms of bias. Refs get stuff wrong sometimes (as far as we can see) but bias isn't usually an issue. If you don't like the refs calls you have the option of changing your own behaviour.

And they get a lot less wrong than I think on first watch usually.

[Vamos los azules]

I do like that they still call it Lansdowne Road.

Me too. I can't be doing with all that confusing insurance company chyte.

I believe they have it set to overwrite Aviva stadium or such like automatically with Lansdowne Road. They certainly did have at the time the stadium opened so it may well still be in place.

[Hippo]

I'd be perfectly happy too with Lacey; this appointment leaves Rolland in a really awkward position though, and it's guaranteed to end in tears one way or the other. Very poor, though sadly typical of the Rabo.

[Dave Cahill]

I do like that they still call it Lansdowne Road.

Me too. I can't be doing with all that confusing insurance company chyte.

I believe they have it set to overwrite Aviva stadium or such like automatically with Lansdowne Road. They certainly did have at the time the stadium opened so it may well still be in place.

Funnily enough though, they don't mind the money from the deal propping them up

[meinster]

Don't recall Clancy or Fitzgibbon ever reffing this fixture.

I had it in my head on a trip down to Thomond (the old Thomond) in the mid 2000s that Fitzgibbon (or maybe Clancy) reffed the fixture, and remember having such craic winding up Leinster lads on the way home.

...it's touch judges, TMOs and citing officers you want to watch out for

I assume that's what had the seed planted in my mind.

I agree that there's now way an IRFU ref should be in charge of this fixture (or any interpo), however I still have it in my head that it's not that unusual (especially where citings are concerned), so I'll assume it's TMOs/Citing officers I'm thinking of (sorry George/Peter!), as per Cormac's stats.

Anyway, no ref/TMO should be from either team's union. The Pro12 is big enough now, and has enough money, to make that not be the case. I'd prefer to give out a bout a cr@p Scottish ref, than have an Irish ref be subject to the abuse (which would potentially spoil the result either way).

Rolland is an exception (and I'm agreed Lacey is decent, I just rate Rolland a cut above anything else IRFU refs have to offer), though, and even if he appears biased, he'll do as decent job on the game as any ref. There maybe be a bit of home bias (as would be the case with any English ref, I think), but hopefully the game won't hinge on a dodgy decision. Especially for one of Alain's last few games. It'll be a very big test for him, and a tough position to be in, but no better man.

Not ideal, but at least it's the best IRFU ref on the case.

Cheers, Cormac for the stats.

[suisse]

Some people with short memories here.

Anyone else remember this game from December 2004? Leinster v Ulster in Donnybrook during Kidney's glorious single season reign.

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcen ... fixid=1803

The referee that day was: Alain Rolland

What I vividly recall about that match was hoping that Felipe Contepomi excelled in the 15 jersey. Leinster already had David Holwell, Brian O'Driscoll and Gordon D'arcy on the their books. Finding room for all 4 was going to be impossible unless Contepomi showed real form from full-back. He kicked the points but didn't have a good game.

[meinster]

Some people with short memories here.

In that IRFU refs don't ref interpros? No (there's been a good few interpros down through the years with Irish refs, just not the Munster v Leinster in Thomond that I was/am so convinced of). I still have it in my head that I walked across the pitch from the North Terrace in old Thomond with Donny B and others quite vocal about the Fitzgibbon (but maybe Clancy) reffing!

In that Rolland is not a good ref? I disagree, wholeheartedly; he's one of the best refs in the world right now, and will be a big loss to the international scene.

[simonokeeffe]

one of those mediocre wingers coached Ireland for 2 years too many after he blew a couple of grand slams

very poor from the league though not to give this to Nigel Owens in the first place, its undeniably the biggest league match of this season (and every season) so the top ref should get it. but no that humdinger of Treviso v Edinburgh needed him more

I trust Rolland to be professional enough to ref the game fairly but its all the more column inches for Munster Fans to wrap around their burning torches

In fairness "Rollers" is regularly recognised as being the top ref. I don't think there's any issue in him covering this one, as with Owens he allows a free flowing entertaining game and tries to be sympathetic to the game in applying the spirit rather than the letter of the law which is what any decent ref should do.

well as someone said the issue is he's played Heineken Cup rugby for one of the provinces

even going with a non Irish ref in the first place highlights there's no officials up to scratch from Connacht but more dammingly Ulster

[suisse]

Some people with short memories here.

In that IRFU refs don't ref interpros? No (there's been a good few interpros down through the years with Irish refs, just not the Munster v Leinster in Thomond that I was/am so convinced of). I still have it in my head that I walked across the pitch from the North Terrace in old Thomond with Donny B and others quite vocal about the Fitzgibbon (but maybe Clancy) reffing!

In that Rolland is not a good ref? I disagree, wholeheartedly; he's one of the best refs in the world right now, and will be a big loss to the international scene.

Alan Lewis referred the TP game in 2006. He was on the Leinster branch of referees but originally from Cork. I remember a lot of people weren't happy about that.