Zane Kirchner selected in the Springbok Squad for the RC :(

[Donny B.]

Sorry. Forgot to Gnash my teeth. grrrr (Makes gnashing sound)

Good lad!

[CiaranIrl]

Because we have shedloads of back 3 players eh?

http://forum.leinsterfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22762

Fergus McFadden plus the often injured Luke Fitz and Dave Kearney. That's it for the wingers.

Kearney senior will be out for a while too. So by "a load of injuries" you mean any at all.

Here is where you tell us that Hudson is a far superior player to the 83 times capped springbok.... Or perhaps some of the academy players?

Edit Sorry. 83 super rugby caps. Only 24 springbok

Well he's actually completely untested as a winger so yes Luke, Ferg and Dave K would be ahead of him. And a fully fit Rob Kearney is a far better player at full back.

Maybe this guy can bring something to the table that he hasn't shown before but I'm not going to fake some excitement over his arrival.

They're hardly going to play every game for Leinster until November though, are they? You know full well he would be really useful early in the season!

[totalrandomer]

I think you are missing the point.

With R Kearney on Lions leave, for probably the 1st month of the season at least, Ferg Luke and Dave K ARE the back 3. There is not even anyone left over for the 23 jersey.

So the question is not is he better than those three. The question is, is he better than Hudson and the Academy lads. Because that's who is on the bench before we have a SINGLE injury.

On the subject of Kirchner being any good. I am going to see how he goes before I write him off. Looked decent for the bulls in the semi.

[Dave Cahill]

Whether hes good or not is actually irrelevant. Hes an international, he was never going to be available until after the Rugby Championship. If you sign quality players, then they are likely to be internationals and you're going to have to live with that. Isa was a freak, an international quality player who couldn't playfor his country - there aren't a lot of those around

[Morf]

Whether hes good or not is actually irrelevant. Hes an international, he was never going to be available until after the Rugby Championship. If you sign quality players, then they are likely to be internationals and you're going to have to live with that. Isa was a freak, an international quality player who couldn't playfor his country - there aren't a lot of those around

Any Kiwis playing outside of NZ. That accounts for a fair amount of them.

[johng]

It was reported in the papers and also from a normally very good source that he would be here early.

That is the reason for this thread and my gnashing of teeth.

I think Donny is morphing into George Hook. Taking controversial opinions for the crack and coming out swinging if anyone disagrees.

[Dave Cahill]

Whether hes good or not is actually irrelevant. Hes an international, he was never going to be available until after the Rugby Championship. If you sign quality players, then they are likely to be internationals and you're going to have to live with that. Isa was a freak, an international quality player who couldn't playfor his country - there aren't a lot of those around

Any Kiwis playing outside of NZ. That accounts for a fair amount of them.

Like Clint Newland and Save Tokula?

[johng]

Whether hes good or not is actually irrelevant. Hes an international, he was never going to be available until after the Rugby Championship. If you sign quality players, then they are likely to be internationals and you're going to have to live with that. Isa was a freak, an international quality player who couldn't playfor his country - there aren't a lot of those around

Any Kiwis playing outside of NZ. That accounts for a fair amount of them.

Like Clint Newland and Save Tokula?

Or Craig Clarke. Ausies too. Like Rocky in his day.

I suppose your point is that any kiwis within shouting distance of being capped will head for France or Japan.

5 years ago we were signing.... Isa, Rocky and CJ Van der Linde (Hard to believe but CJ was the biggest news as a WC winning TH) to add to Dr Phil and Stan Wright.

In some ways the fact that we have signed Gopperth, Goodman & Zaneo reflects our lack of financial clout, but it also reflects the fact that we are much less reliant on NIQs now, with arguably none of them able to make our HC 23.

Ulster still need all 5 of theirs to make it. That's 33% of their starting team.

[johng]

I say Arguably. I would still back ZK to make the no 23 jersey at least even with everyone fit. We shall see as the season unfolds

[artaneboy]

Whether hes good or not is actually irrelevant. Hes an international, he was never going to be available until after the Rugby Championship. If you sign quality players, then they are likely to be internationals and you're going to have to live with that. Isa was a freak, an international quality player who couldn't playfor his country - there aren't a lot of those around

Any Kiwis playing outside of NZ. That accounts for a fair amount of them.

Like Clint Newland and Save Tokula?

Yeah sure they're the only type of Kiwi international player coming early! C'mon- we all know that's not true.

The point is not whether or not SH current, prospective or 'former' internationals signed by us (not other clubs) usually arrive early in the season. We know they do. Donny just doesn't fancy him as a player and he made a glib comment dismissing his arrival. We've all done it- but let's stop trying to pretend we didn't expect him to be here in September. And he will be a loss, if he doesn't. That IS the point!

[Dave Cahill]

How could anyone have expected him here in September though? The guy is the springbok full back, of course he wasn't going to be here until the Rugby Championship was finished. Any current SH international won't be around til then.

[johng]

Dunno mate. But I can assure you they did. My guess is that the nods and the winks didn't pan out as expected.

Perhaps it was felt that Aplon would be ahead of Kirchner seeing as Kirchner was leaving, and that he would be let ride into the sunset. Or that Willie Le Roux would be ahead of him.

Edit: Zane has always been a favourite of Meyer.

[artaneboy]

How could anyone have expected him here in September though? The guy is the springbok full back, of course he wasn't going to be here until the Rugby Championship was finished. Any current SH international won't be around til then.

As John G states that was the more than reasonable expectation. My own belief was that he was taking a 'sabbatical' from international play. And with respect, I suggest the view that a delay was to be expected is retrospective. I certainly read no comment to the contrary over the weeks that his signing was firstly rumoured and then confirmed. Either way that's still not the point, which is that without him we are very thin on experienced back three cover.

[Lazarus]

Dave is correct though. Anyone that knows the workings of Irish Provinces with South African signings will be more than familiar with this scenario. Irish Provinces go after these players in the knowledge that they will have to TRY to secure an early release, that early release will cost a few bob also.

The South African lads can generally be involved in Rugby Championship or Currie Cup action. Clubs are reluctant to sign off on early releases. Leinster certainly would have hoped to get that early release as Munster looked for with Van Den Heever (Currie Cup) , Same thing with CJ Stander. It's par for the course. So reasonably expecting Kirchner to be arriving in September- is actually unreasonable.

I would be very surprised if Leinster were banking on him being here before mid to late October.

[Dave Cahill]

How could anyone have expected him here in September though? The guy is the springbok full back, of course he wasn't going to be here until the Rugby Championship was finished. Any current SH international won't be around til then.

As John G states that was the more than reasonable expectation. My own belief was that he was taking a 'sabbatical' from international play. And with respect, I suggest the view that a delay was to be expected is retrospective. I certainly read no comment to the contrary over the weeks that his signing was firstly rumoured and then confirmed. Either way that's still not the point, which is that without him we are very thin on experienced back three cover.

I don't see how it could be reasonable though?. We all watch the Rugby Championship, most of us watch the Currie Cup, we know when those games are on and when the Tournaments finish. We were in the same situation with Ollie Le Roux and with Richardt Strauss, who arrived in October and November respectively due to CC commitments. De Villiers, for example, didn't make his Munster debut until the end of September and that was after a shorter three team tournament. We all knew that Kirchner was the Springbok fullback and I don't think it was reasonable either for anyone to believe that he was taking a sabbatical - South Africans historically haven't and their Union have had no problem selecting players from either hemisphere in the past.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I don't think anyone should have expected him sooner but whether or not we thought he'd arrive early really isn't the point. The point is why did Leinster sign someone who won't be available for a while and might be missing again in November?

I could understand it if it was a different position or for a world class player but he's not someone we should be prepared to wait for given our lack of resources in the back three. We're short of numbers WITH Zane, never mind without him.

I say this as someone who actually rates him, I think he's a dreadful signing. I just don't believe that there isn't an Aussie or Kiwi out there who would suit us better in terms of covering positions that we need and availability.

[wixfjord]

I don't see how it could be reasonable though?. We all watch the Rugby Championship, most of us watch the Currie Cup, we know when those games are on and when the Tournaments finish. We were in the same situation with Ollie Le Roux and with Richardt Strauss, who arrived in October and November respectively due to CC commitments. De Villiers, for example, didn't make his Munster debut until the end of September and that was after a shorter three team tournament. We all knew that Kirchner was the Springbok fullback and I don't think it was reasonable either for anyone to believe that he was taking a sabbatical - South Africans historically haven't and their Union have had no problem selecting players from either hemisphere in the past.

It was reported that he wouldn't be playing in the Currie Cup by more than one source.

http://www.espn.co.uk/rabodirect-pro12- ... 81066.html
'Reports suggest Leinster are keen to secure an early release for the fullback so he can link-up with the rest of the side in time for their pre-season programme.'

So that's why people thought he could be with us earlier.

As for the international side, given the fact that he's moving, isn't exactly flavour of the month in the Republic, and SA have at least two younger, better FB options, it's hardly unreasonable for one to presume that he'd be with us and stay with us early.

Are yourself and Donny combining in some sort of off season 'self righteous off'?!

[ceemec]

In fairness, whilst ZK has clearly been the first choice 15 over the past year or two, with the selection of WLR and Lambie in the squad for S.A., I think it was entirely reasonable to hold out some hope that ZK would be surplus to requirements, particularly given the reports that Leinster were seeking an early release.

S.A. don't have a policy of non-selection for guys playing in the northern hemisphere but they are certainly less likely to be selected. Butch James, Fourie du Preez, Jacque Fourie and JdV all have earned less caps due to moving north. ZK has never been in their bracket in terms of importance to the side either.

I thought it was unlikely but certainly not out of the question.

[Lazarus]

I don't see how it could be reasonable though?. We all watch the Rugby Championship, most of us watch the Currie Cup, we know when those games are on and when the Tournaments finish. We were in the same situation with Ollie Le Roux and with Richardt Strauss, who arrived in October and November respectively due to CC commitments. De Villiers, for example, didn't make his Munster debut until the end of September and that was after a shorter three team tournament. We all knew that Kirchner was the Springbok fullback and I don't think it was reasonable either for anyone to believe that he was taking a sabbatical - South Africans historically haven't and their Union have had no problem selecting players from either hemisphere in the past.

It was reported that he wouldn't be playing in the Currie Cup by more than one source.

http://www.espn.co.uk/rabodirect-pro12- ... 81066.html
'Reports suggest Leinster are keen to secure an early release for the fullback so he can link-up with the rest of the side in time for their pre-season programme.'

So that's why people thought he could be with us earlier.

As for the international side, given the fact that he's moving, isn't exactly flavour of the month in the Republic, and SA have at least two younger, better FB options, it's hardly unreasonable for one to presume that he'd be with us and stay with us early.

Are yourself and Donny combining in some sort of off season 'self righteous off'?!

All that says is , Leinster were KEEN to secure an early release, none of the Reports i,ve seen ever stated that He WOULD be here early, so Yes, It is unreasonable to expect He,d be here early.

[Dave Cahill]

I don't see how it could be reasonable though?. We all watch the Rugby Championship, most of us watch the Currie Cup, we know when those games are on and when the Tournaments finish. We were in the same situation with Ollie Le Roux and with Richardt Strauss, who arrived in October and November respectively due to CC commitments. De Villiers, for example, didn't make his Munster debut until the end of September and that was after a shorter three team tournament. We all knew that Kirchner was the Springbok fullback and I don't think it was reasonable either for anyone to believe that he was taking a sabbatical - South Africans historically haven't and their Union have had no problem selecting players from either hemisphere in the past.

It was reported that he wouldn't be playing in the Currie Cup by more than one source.

http://www.espn.co.uk/rabodirect-pro12- ... 81066.html
'Reports suggest Leinster are keen to secure an early release for the fullback so he can link-up with the rest of the side in time for their pre-season programme.'

So that's why people thought he could be with us earlier.

As for the international side, given the fact that he's moving, isn't exactly flavour of the month in the Republic, and SA have at least two younger, better FB options, it's hardly unreasonable for one to presume that he'd be with us and stay with us early.

Are yourself and Donny combining in some sort of off season 'self righteous off'?!

Pointing out some fairly massively glaring holes in a thought process that leads to an entirely erroneous assumption based on almost no evidence whatsoever is hardly being self righteous (though I am aware how self righteous the previous sentence sounds). To take the example in the report you posted, it completely ignores the Rugby Championship, doesn't even mention it, assuming that the Springbok full back, a massive favourite of the Springbok coach for both 'club' and country, would be entirely dropped from the Springbok squad by that coach! I mean c'mon, thats really poor reporting.