[Official] Jimmy Gopperth signs

[wixfjord]

How in the name of jaysus is there a 'bottleneck at 9'?!

Can't understand the consternation around this position. As far as I'm concerned, we're in a great place. Two older, experienced heads to close out for the next two seasons perhaps, with two promising young guns (people forget just how young Luke McGrath actually is), to slot straight in.

It's a great scenario.

[[Jackass]]

By bottle neck I mean that Boss and Reddan will more than likely be 1st and 2nd choice still for another season or two at least, but in my opinion, I think both McGrath and Cooney are ready to be second choice scrum halves in the senior team, so McGrath for example is good enough to maybe be 2nd choice behind Reddan, but is conceivably 4th choice and may see little or no game time, especially in bigger games.

I've no problem with having buckets of talent in one position, but game time is everything. Look at Conor Murray for example, absolutely useless coming through, but with loads of game time, now has a well deserved Lions spot.

Similarly with Madigan, I think there's no harm in trusting young players as long as they have the talent, especially if they're deputising an older, more experienced player, and both Cooney and McGrath have buckets of talent, but how much game time will young lads get if there's 4 good players for one spot.

If Reddan hadn't have gotten injured, would we have seen the great performances by Cooney and the great performance by McGrath that has us all raving? McGrath was absolutely superb for the Irish U20s and is more than ready for senior first team rugby with Leinster, Cooney has looked great also....as with some young players, they don't stick around if they aint getting game time, I'd rather lose a senior guy like Boss or Reddan now than lose either of McGrath or Cooney in a season or two.

Ideally after next season I'd like to see Cooney & McGrath as the two main options at 9, but that would work a lot better if both got a fair chunk of game time next season, which they wont, and I'd be surprised if even one of them got a fair bit of game time if Reddan and Boss are both fit. Not wishing away our riches, just pointing out the scenario.

[fourthirtythree]

Always a bit hard to break into a successful team. I'd rather have that problem than the problem in the outside backs, couple of injuries and we're shagged again.
2 and 9 - good to go!

[simonokeeffe]

If we dont release a senior 9 next summer we should loan McGrath out for a year, solves a multitude of problems

[Ruckedtobits]

No way should we loan out McGrath. He looks the most skillful Irish SH for about two generations, viz: passes quickly off both hands, box kicks well, reads defensive lines brilliantly, has a sharp quick break with acceleration over 15 mtrs, tackles technically very well on both shoulders and is tactically very astute is choosing options when hitting one, two or three out from slow ball. His performance against Munster A in B&I Semi in Limerick was top drawer and sealed his debut against Ospreys

For his age and physique he is fearless - have a review of one of early tackes against Ospreys last weekend.

IMO McGrath could be on Irish panel this time next year. Subject to him not getting too brave and then getting injured, he has the potential to go up and stay up

[hugonaut]

This is a complete and utter non-story. Under JS, Leinster didn't promise anybody a specific number of starts or that they'd start specific matches. There's no chance that Gopperth was told that he'd be first choice regardless of form, just like there was no chance he was told that he was only ever going to be second choice, no matter how well he played. End of story.

Not quite end of story, because, if anything, the opposite could well happen. Its not unknown for the national coach to 'request' that the provincial coaches play certain players.

I outlined two options there Dave – 1] Gopperth being told he was going in as first choice no matter how bad his form was or how well anybody else played; and 2] Gopperth being told he was only ever going to be 'second fiddle' no matter how good his form was or how badly anybody else played.

I wasn't commenting on what will happen with selection under Matt O'Connor, I was commenting on the circumstances under which he was contracted.

[ronk]

There's another thing that has to be considered with Cooney and McGrath, they're fairly standard conventional scrumhalves of the type who've been out of fashion in Ireland since 2000 but are in vogue lots of other places. Reddan had to go to Wasps to rescue his career.

Joe wasn't like that, but he also wasn't someone who seemed notably focused on the position and there was always the potential issue that young scrumhalves with an eye to getting into the Ireland team might have been looking to please Kidney. I generally felt that Kidney dropped Reddan any chance he got, he was willing to use him but was looking for someone to do something different.

Matt O'Connor is coming from Leicester, somewhere that knows a lot about how scrumhalves should play. He's used to working with Ben Youngs.

[bails]

McGraths pass is some way short of the speed and quality of Reddans, Cooneys and even Boss's
But he has fantastic potential to be the best of them all

[Dave Cahill]

This is a complete and utter non-story. Under JS, Leinster didn't promise anybody a specific number of starts or that they'd start specific matches. There's no chance that Gopperth was told that he'd be first choice regardless of form, just like there was no chance he was told that he was only ever going to be second choice, no matter how well he played. End of story.

Not quite end of story, because, if anything, the opposite could well happen. Its not unknown for the national coach to 'request' that the provincial coaches play certain players.

I outlined two options there Dave – 1] Gopperth being told he was going in as first choice no matter how bad his form was or how well anybody else played; and 2] Gopperth being told he was only ever going to be 'second fiddle' no matter how good his form was or how badly anybody else played.

I wasn't commenting on what will happen with selection under Matt O'Connor, I was commenting on the circumstances under which he was contracted.

No, I agree with what you wrote alright, its just that sometimes the provinces selection processes don't always end with the provinces selectors, so even if there were an agreement or there were form factors influencing a particular selection (not just madser, but throughout all the provinces), that selection decision can be overridden.

[Flash Gordon]

This is a complete and utter non-story. Under JS, Leinster didn't promise anybody a specific number of starts or that they'd start specific matches. There's no chance that Gopperth was told that he'd be first choice regardless of form, just like there was no chance he was told that he was only ever going to be second choice, no matter how well he played. End of story.

Not quite end of story, because, if anything, the opposite could well happen. Its not unknown for the national coach to 'request' that the provincial coaches play certain players.

Is this really true Dave? I know we all have our own personal provincial conspiracy theories but is Joe really going to pick up the phone and say "sorry you've got to play the best 10 playing in Ireland at 12"? Not sure how Ireland's current number 12 will react to that either!

[Logorrhea]

Paddy Jackson suddenly because the primary kicker for Ulster (even when Pienar was playing) once the questions were being asked about him at 10 for Ireland.

I'm sure Ulster did it as a favour to both Paddy and Ireland, but it wasn't necessarily in their interest to do it.

[Xanthippe]

Paddy Jackson suddenly became the primary kicker for Ulster (even when Pienar was playing) once the questions were being asked about him at 10 for Ireland.

I'm sure Ulster did it as a favour to both Paddy and Ireland, but it wasn't necessarily in their interest to do it.

I'm not sure it's strictly true to say he became the primary kicker once questions about him at 10 for Ireland were being asked. Paddy was kicking well for Ulster in the early part of the season and when things started going wrong he was replaced by Pienaar.

The weekend before he was due to start as Ireland kicker, Ulster were 'asked' to allow him to kick, which he did and got 7 of his 8 attempts. In his next game for Ulster he only managed 1/5 and he hasn't kicked for them since.

The table below shows (under 1) who was the primary kicker for each Ulster game this season along with what they kicked and, if they were replaced, the second kicker is listed under 2

Date	Comp	Round	1		2
31-Aug	RDP12	1	NOC (3/4)		
08-Sep	RDP12	2	NOC (1/3)	PJ (3/3)	
14-Sep	RDP12	3	PJ (5/7)		
18-Nov	RDP12	4	NOC (6/7)		
28-Sep	RDP12	5	PJ (6/10)		
05-Oct	RDP12	6	PJ (4/4)		
12-Oct	H-Cup	1	PJ (8/9)		
19-Oct	H-Cup	2	PJ (5/6)		
26-Oct	RDP12	7	RP (7/10)		
02-Nov	RDP12	8	RP (6/6)	NOC (1/1) - Blood sub
23-Nov	RDP12	9	NOC (4/5)		
02-Dec	RDP12	10	PJ (5/6)		
07-Dec	H-Cup	3	PJ (2/7)		
15-Dec	H-Cup	4	PJ (3/4)		
21-Dec	RDP12	11	PJ (1/3)	RP (4/5)	
29-Dec	RDP12	12	NOC (1/2)		
04-Jan	RDP12	13	RP (6/6)	PJ (2/2)	
11-Jan	H-Cup	5	RP (3/7)		
19-Jan	H-Cup	6	RP (3/5)		
08-Feb	RDP12	14	RP (3/3)		
15-Feb	RDP12	15	RP (3/4)		
22-Feb	RDP12	16	RP (3/6)		
01-Mar	RDP12	17	PJ (7/8)		
22-Mar	RDP12	18	PJ (1/5)		
30-Mar	RDP12	19	RP (4/6)		
06-Apr	H-Cup	Qtr	RP (4/6)		
12-Apr	RDP12	20	RP (5/5)		
19-Apr	RDP12	21	RP (4/8)		
03-May	RDP12	22	RP (7/8)

[Degz]

For all the talk about Pienaar, he isn't exactly a dead-eyed dick according to those stats, is he.

[fourthirtythree]

For all the talk about Pienaar, he isn't exactly a dead-eyed dick according to those stats, is he.

Has missed a lot of sitters. In his first season here everyone talked about the last minute long distance penalties that won games, but conveniently forgot the sitters he missed leaving them needing it.

I thought he has been great this last season though, I was unconvinced by him previously due to his tackling which made iHumph look committed and brave.

[ceemec]

Pienaar never was considered a fantastic kicker though in his career. He has done it on some massive occasions for Ulster and has a huge boot but in terms of accuracy, I'm not surprised to see his stats though. In South Africa, there was clamour for Morne Steyn to come in earlier than he did or for Frans Steyn to take over all kicks at goal from Pienaar when he was playing outhalf. He was 0/3 in the Lions second test and was dropped for the last test after that. He was decent from the tee but not international standard.

[Logorrhea]

The weekend before he was due to start as Ireland kicker, Ulster were 'asked' to allow him to kick, which he did and got 7 of his 8 attempts. In his next game for Ulster he only managed 1/5 and he hasn't kicked for them since.

That is what I meant. To be honest I was only referring to the one game where Pienarr was replaced by Jackson, only because it was in the interest of the Irish team.

[Xanthippe]

The weekend before he was due to start as Ireland kicker, Ulster were 'asked' to allow him to kick, which he did and got 7 of his 8 attempts. In his next game for Ulster he only managed 1/5 and he hasn't kicked for them since.

That is what I meant. To be honest I was only referring to the one game where Pienarr was replaced by Jackson, only because it was in the interest of the Irish team.

Sorry, think I misunderstood you slightly

[Logorrhea]

Nahh I didnt phrase it very well. I used the word primary, without clarifying it was only a short term thing. My fault.

[simonokeeffe]

my logic in loaning mcgrath out (if we dont release a senior 9 prob Boss next summer) is he gets gametime/improves but is still our player (if he is still 4th choice)

if hes 4th choice, out of contract, other clubs come calling he might decide to leave altogether when he graduates academy

let us also remember he has played 1 solitary senior game too

[Lamb of BOD]

He's 4th choice now and rightly so. It has been entirely correct to let him develop his game - and his physique - in the academy. There's a new coach coming in who will assess all the players at his disposal. I would expect he'll generally pick the best player in each position. Personally, I see McGrath as the long term future - I;ve been impressed with the guy every time I saw him play for the As and was delighted with how composed he looked against the Ospreys - both for club and country. I've never seen in Murray what DK and now Gatland see, but different folks, different strokes I guess. Point being, I see in McGrath everything I think a scrumhalf should be. If MOC thinks this, he'll select McGrath regardless of how far down the pecking order he is now. In any case the number 9 selection issue is a nice one to have - we're definitely blessed with talent in this position. I can't get rid of this nagging feeling that we're short at least one winger ...