Michael Bent

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backrower8
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Michael Bent

Post by backrower8 »

Despite some eye catching cameos for Ireland I am unnerved by Bent's last two outings for Leinster. Very poor scrummaging in my opinion. Nathan White also had Heinke's number to a degree. Thoughts on Bent anyone?

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Re: Michael Bent

Post by Cianostays »

I'm very unwilling to write him off at such an early stage. He showed against SA that he certainly can lock out a scrum. I'd be confident that the more he works with Feek and Ross, the more improvement we will see.
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simonokeeffe
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Re: Michael Bent

Post by simonokeeffe »

he's been hampered in those two games by the scrum going backwards or down on the other side and no massive heft pushing behind him

v Ulster especially loosehead side going back at a rate of knots which aided in Court driving in and up and Ulster flanker interfering with him too
v Connacht the same thing was happening albeit to a lesser extent
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lummix
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Re: Michael Bent

Post by lummix »

Thought the scrum wasn't too bad against Connacht, pretty even in my opinion. Don't think toner is the greatest tighthead scrummager behind him. What I will say for bent is he has a very good workrate around the pitch and his clear out work at the breakdown is also very good. Be interesting to see him scrummage with Browne behind him

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Re: Michael Bent

Post by FLIP »

People are very quick to blame the locks, in both this game and the Ulster game. I haven't seen the Connacht game, but Bent was taken apart by Court. There's a massive difference coming off the bench for 20mins against a pack which is mostly tired, compared to playing a full game. All hype and no foundations for Bent in the scrums so far.

Really don't agree with simon, the scrums in the Ulster game where spinning clockwise, which indicates the tighthead side being beaten. Simple physics.
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lummix
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Re: Michael Bent

Post by lummix »

I used to never think about the second rows regarding scrummaging but I think you'll find the majority of times the Leinster scrum has been dismantled this season it's been toner as tight head second row and not Browne. Now there's a trade off between the lack of what Browne does around the pitch and lack of lineout option for this scrum security that has to be assessed and decided upon

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simonokeeffe
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Re: Michael Bent

Post by simonokeeffe »

FLIP wrote:People are very quick to blame the locks, in both this game and the Ulster game. I haven't seen the Connacht game, but Bent was taken apart by Court. There's a massive difference coming off the bench for 20mins against a pack which is mostly tired, compared to playing a full game. All hype and no foundations for Bent in the scrums so far.

Really don't agree with simon, the scrums in the Ulster game where spinning clockwise, which indicates the tighthead side being beaten. Simple physics.
had quick look at scrum highlights again and theyre just going back in general, if anything the initial hit went going back on Healys side more often, definitely no prevailing clockwise spin
for penalty try the scrum is crabbing but collapses on Healy/Afoa
court was doing Mujati's trick of going up and in, having momentum helps with that, especially when he was on refs blindside, those were the only spinning clockwise ones
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Oldschool
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Re: Michael Bent

Post by Oldschool »

lummix wrote:I used to never think about the second rows regarding scrummaging but I think you'll find the majority of times the Leinster scrum has been dismantled this season it's been toner as tight head second row and not Browne. Now there's a trade off between the lack of what Browne does around the pitch and lack of lineout option for this scrum security that has to be assessed and decided upon
I've a simple solution.
Start with Browne and Toner.
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simonokeeffe
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Re: Michael Bent

Post by simonokeeffe »

but we need Leo!!!!!!! for his sealing off, side entry, obstruction, pulling back, blocking, sorry, his McCaw esque breakdown work
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cwebber82
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Re: Michael Bent

Post by cwebber82 »

Bent hasn't set the world alight with his scrummaging so far but it's far too early to write him off. He's adjusting to a new country, new surroundings etc. Takes a while.

Remember the Northampton scrum was demolished by the Ulster scrum in Franklin Gardens. It's true to point out that Toner is not the most powerful scrummager and I'm not sure how powerful Browne is in the scrum either. Big lump of a lad but not the most athletic.

Bent's body shape would worry me slightly. He looks very top heavy. How many top class tighthead's have no backside?

Anyway, Martin Moore should be ready for week in week out pro rugby from the start of next season. Might even make the 2014 6N squad :wink:

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Sauvignon Blank
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Re: Michael Bent

Post by Sauvignon Blank »

backrower8 wrote:Despite some eye catching cameos for Ireland I am unnerved by Bent's last two outings for Leinster. Very poor scrummaging in my opinion. Nathan White also had Heinke's number to a degree. Thoughts on Bent anyone?
Very early days for Bent. Remember Stan when he arrived here and how he went on to become a demon scrummager.
I think we'll see the best of Bent next season after settling down on and off the park.
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simonokeeffe
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Re: Michael Bent

Post by simonokeeffe »

A few months working with Feek should help, as will playing with Strauss who is easily our best scrummaging hooker
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nelly the elephant
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Re: Michael Bent

Post by nelly the elephant »

Sauvignon Blank wrote:
backrower8 wrote:Despite some eye catching cameos for Ireland I am unnerved by Bent's last two outings for Leinster. Very poor scrummaging in my opinion. Nathan White also had Heinke's number to a degree. Thoughts on Bent anyone?
Very early days for Bent. Remember Stan when he arrived here and how he went on to become a demon scrummager.
I think we'll see the best of Bent next season after settling down on and off the park.
Very good point. I think many people just made assumptions based on Stan's (admittedly poor) intitial appearance/condition.....once he got to the required fitness he started making a big impact in the tight and the loose. Here's hoping we can have similar success with Bent.
Last edited by nelly the elephant on January 2nd, 2013, 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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backrower8
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Re: Michael Bent

Post by backrower8 »

I have to say that I am surprised at the lack of comment on this thread regarding a pivotal issue for Leinster and on the mainly positive/forgiving trend of the remarks that have actually been made.

Though not someone with front row experience, my gut feeling is negative after the last two outings...I think he had a tough day at the office in Edinbrugh too...however I agree that more time is needed and that his work round the park is good (but not what he was brought here for)

One rugby man whose opinion I respect is Donal Lenihan (yes he can be biased in his commentary...but who with his sort of playing record would not be?) and he doesn't put a tooth in it in today's Examiner when pointing up Benty's poor showings of late...

3 TIGHT HEAD COVERFOR MIKE ROSS

We need little reminding of the fact that once Mike Ross was forced off against England at Twickenham in our last Six Nations encounter, Ireland’s scrum was taken to the cleaners. A change in the regulations now allows specialist tight and loose head props to sit on the bench which should aid Ireland’s cause. Tom Court, freed of the responsibility of trying to cover the tight head side, focused on his duties as a loose head with spectacular results.

With the massive strides taken by Dave Kilcoyne, Ireland are well served at loose head should the excellent Cian Healy pick up an injury. Unfortunately it was a very disappointing and unproductive festive period for Ireland’s latest tight head project, New Zealander Michael Bent.

Court reminded Declan Kidney what he has to offer by dismantling Bent in their head-to-head at Ravenhill. Even more disturbing was the manner with which young Connacht loose head Denis Buckley had Bent on the retreat on Saturday. Bent could do nothing against a comparative rookie and was hauled off when Leinster failed to take advantage of a five-metre attacking scrum 12 minutes into the second half with Ross introduced.

The haste with which Bent was introduced to the Irish squad after his arrival in Ireland and offered two international caps, did not sit well but if he was capable of addressing an area of vulnerability then we could learn to live with it. On the evidence so far, he has a lot of convincing to do to warrant inclusion on the bench in the Six Nations opener against Wales.

Unfortunately it looks as if an age old problem is yet to be resolved and Ross’ bargaining position with the IRFU in relation to his new contract has improved immeasurably.
Last edited by backrower8 on January 2nd, 2013, 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fourthirtythree
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Re: Michael Bent

Post by fourthirtythree »

In fairness the five metre attacking scrums were cynical penalties against Connacht that the ref bottled. Schmidt rarely gives out yards about the refereeing but that performance at the weekend was as bad as I can remember. Fitzgibbon a couple of years ago was about that level. He was a genuinely dangerous idiot - I predicted someone would get injured by being taken out in the air as he was allowing them do it - and so it happened.
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Re: Michael Bent

Post by Oldschool »

backrower8 wrote:I have to say that I am surprised at the lack of comment on this thread regarding a pivotal issue for Leinster and on the mainly positive/forgiving trend of the remarks that have actually been made.

Though not someone with front row experience, my gut feeling is negative after the last two outings...I think he had a tough day at the office in Edinbrugh too...however I agree that more time is needed and that his work round the park is good (but not what he was brought here for)

One rugby man whose opinion I respect is Donal Lenihan (yes he can be biased in his commentary...but who with his sort of playing record would not be?) and he doesn't put a tooth in it in today's Examiner when pointing up Benty's poor showings of late...

3 TIGHT HEAD COVERFOR MIKE ROSS

We need little reminding of the fact that once Mike Ross was forced off against England at Twickenham in our last Six Nations encounter, Ireland’s scrum was taken to the cleaners. A change in the regulations now allows specialist tight and loose head props to sit on the bench which should aid Ireland’s cause. Tom Court, freed of the responsibility of trying to cover the tight head side, focused on his duties as a loose head with spectacular results.

With the massive strides taken by Dave Kilcoyne, Ireland are well served at loose head should the excellent Cian Healy pick up an injury. Unfortunately it was a very disappointing and unproductive festive period for Ireland’s latest tight head project, New Zealander Michael Bent.

Court reminded Declan Kidney what he has to offer by dismantling Bent in their head-to-head at Ravenhill. Even more disturbing was the manner with which young Connacht loose head Denis Buckley had Bent on the retreat on Saturday. Bent could do nothing against a comparative rookie and was hauled off when Leinster failed to take advantage of a five-metre attacking scrum 12 minutes into the second half with Ross introduced.

The haste with which Bent was introduced to the Irish squad after his arrival in Ireland and offered two international caps, did not sit well but if he was capable of addressing an area of vulnerability then we could learn to live with it. On the evidence so far, he has a lot of convincing to do to warrant inclusion on the bench in the Six Nations opener against Wales.

Unfortunately it looks as if an age old problem is yet to be resolved and Ross’ bargaining position with the IRFU in relation to his new contract has improved immeasurably.
Lenihan seems more worried about Ross' negotiating position than about the TH problem itself. Sour grapes.
That's being selective, I know, but then he shouldn't have said it.
This is more of the ABR type sh!te coming from down south. ABR => Anybody But Ross.
When they're finished with that, it'll be back to ABH => Anybody But Heaslip.
Me, I prefer ABM => Anybody But Murray. There's a lot more justification for it.
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backrower8
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Re: Michael Bent

Post by backrower8 »

I think ABTABE = Anything But the Anyone But Expression which is too negative in itself

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ronk
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Re: Michael Bent

Post by ronk »

Bent's job isn't to be better than Mike Ross, it's to be better than Archer and Hagan. Any more than that is a bonus.

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Re: Michael Bent

Post by desperado »

http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri ... XmC_fku15Y
Donal should look at the highlights (horror show). The scrum was being dismantled long before MR left the field.

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fourthirtythree
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Re: Michael Bent

Post by fourthirtythree »

Offhand I can't recall whether Ross was injured in the first or second scrum, but I doubt he would have been on had we a tighthead on the bench past a few minutes into the match.

Sorry, if you are a Kidder apologist: Ross is cr@p anyway and some paratrooper is better than Court. Let's try to humiliate them in as cowardly fashion as one can imagine using a whispering campaign by proxy.
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My friend, blood shaking my heart
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Which an age of prudence can never retract
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