Rumour Mill

[wixfjord]

Jeremy Staunton was the athlete who had everything and could do anything. He worked hard and focused on his game. Ronan O'Gara was talented, but not as blessed. He worked harder and won games however he could.

Future success isnt just an ability function. Ross Byrne isn't perfect, but he's been winning Leinster games for a long time. He doesn't score a lot of tries but he's scored the same or more tries in the HC as the URC every year. He's a big game player.

Funny you mention Jeremy Staunton, a guy who also had a few notable flaws in his game along with competition from a younger, more fancied competitor and left these shores to a solid enough career...

To go back to the earlier point, look at some of the 10s coming through on the test stage now. Smith, Sheedy, Hastings, Ntamack, Jalibert. Some of them don't have Ross' kicking game, but to be a viable 10 at test level you have to have a certain athletic profile. You have to be able to threaten.

Again, Ross is a cracking player who has led us to some brilliant wins, but he doesn't have that in his locker, which is a big blocker at a high level.

(This discussion is moot anyway, as Ross isn't going anywhere imo.)

[Degz]

Ciaran Frawley is the guy I think people are forgetting here. At 23 he has all the physical attributes. Looks like he's being managed to the centres though.

[the spoofer]

Jeremy Staunton was the athlete who had everything and could do anything. He worked hard and focused on his game. Ronan O'Gara was talented, but not as blessed. He worked harder and won games however he could.

Future success isnt just an ability function. Ross Byrne isn't perfect, but he's been winning Leinster games for a long time. He doesn't score a lot of tries but he's scored the same or more tries in the HC as the URC every year. He's a big game player.

Funny you mention Jeremy Staunton, a guy who also had a few notable flaws in his game along with competition from a younger, more fancied competitor and left these shores to a solid enough career...

To go back to the earlier point, look at some of the 10s coming through on the test stage now. Smith, Sheedy, Hastings, Ntamack, Jalibert. Some of them don't have Ross' kicking game, but to be a viable 10 at test level you have to have a certain athletic profile. You have to be able to threaten.

Again, Ross is a cracking player who has led us to some brilliant wins, but he doesn't have that in his locker, which is a big blocker at a high level.

(This discussion is moot anyway, as Ross isn't going anywhere imo.)

I wouldn't swap Ross for at least 2 of those named.

[wixfjord]

Jeremy Staunton was the athlete who had everything and could do anything. He worked hard and focused on his game. Ronan O'Gara was talented, but not as blessed. He worked harder and won games however he could.

Future success isnt just an ability function. Ross Byrne isn't perfect, but he's been winning Leinster games for a long time. He doesn't score a lot of tries but he's scored the same or more tries in the HC as the URC every year. He's a big game player.

Funny you mention Jeremy Staunton, a guy who also had a few notable flaws in his game along with competition from a younger, more fancied competitor and left these shores to a solid enough career...

To go back to the earlier point, look at some of the 10s coming through on the test stage now. Smith, Sheedy, Hastings, Ntamack, Jalibert. Some of them don't have Ross' kicking game, but to be a viable 10 at test level you have to have a certain athletic profile. You have to be able to threaten.

Again, Ross is a cracking player who has led us to some brilliant wins, but he doesn't have that in his locker, which is a big blocker at a high level.

(This discussion is moot anyway, as Ross isn't going anywhere imo.)

I wouldn't swap Ross for at least 2 of those named.

Yep I would agree on Sheedy/Hastings.

And that supports the point.

Both of them have an extra bit of top end attacking ability, speed, athleticism compared to Ross and are likely to have more chances at test level because of that.

I've said this about 10 times in different ways, and it's not a sleight on Ross who's a cracking 10...but he clearly lacks a few tools to bridge the gap between league/HC and test level.

[Hoofhearted]

Hi all, just to weigh in on the RB topic. I never think "Oh no" when i see Ross start at 10 for Leinster, quite the opposite infact. I'm not suggesting anyone on here thinks "Oh No" either btw! I'm just making the point that he's an excellent 10 in my books. Calm, composed, a good kicker, communicator and a proper pivot that can be relied upon. With the right mindset that sort of 10 is invaluable to a group that wants to win trophies. Lots of teams over the years have suffered from a ten that thinks he can win the game for them on his own.

With the likes of a Henshaw, Frawley and Ringrose outside him and JGP and McGrath at 9 we are well stocked for creativity and explosiveness. I'd have RB as back up 10 over any other Irish qualified 10 other than Sexton. In time his brother might change my mind, but for now i hope he stays and keeps doing what he is doing.

He is only 26 years old. How good will he be at 30 if he keeps getting games and developing the skills he has. One thing going for him is..... he doesn't have pace and power to lose so he wont suddenly find himself without the two tools that a lot of players build their game around as he gets older!

[the spoofer]

The fact that RB is behind Billy Burns says more about Andy Farrell than it does about RB.

[Dexter]

The fact that RB is behind Billy Burns says more about Andy Farrell than it does about RB.

+1

[RoboProp]

The fact that RB is behind Billy Burns says more about Andy Farrell than it does about RB.

You need to change your user name, genuine sage like wisdom in that post!

[the spoofer]

The fact that RB is behind Billy Burns says more about Andy Farrell than it does about RB.

You need to change your user name, genuine sage like wisdom in that post!

Stopped clock and all that......

[Oldschoolsocks]

The fact that RB is behind Billy Burns says more about Andy Farrell than it does about RB.

+1

Also +1

[OneLungDavy]

The fact that RB is behind Billy Burns says more about Andy Farrell than it does about RB.

-1

[riocard911]

The fact that RB is behind Billy Burns says more about Andy Farrell than it does about RB.

+1

[ronk]

I've said this about 10 times in different ways, and it's not a sleight on Ross who's a cracking 10...but he clearly lacks a few tools to bridge the gap between league/HC and test level.

Sure. In a Ross v Sexton debate there's only 1 winner. If Harry bolts and becomes the next Sexton, then it's a short debate too.

In a contest of our flawed outhalf versus their differently flawed outhalf then it's more complex. But we're having the latter debate, we're talking about the depth chart and managing as best we can without an elite outhalf, if we need to. Not which one is going to start for the Lions.

Pointing out that Ross isn't world class may be true but it isn't useful. Neither is Burns, neither is Carty and based on form Carbery ain't there either.

If I wanted to give Irish development minutes to someone Harry Byrne makes a lot of sense. Carbery will get more chances because of games in the bank from a long long time ago. But Ross Byrne is the one I'd pick in a must win game.

[wixfjord]

I've said this about 10 times in different ways, and it's not a sleight on Ross who's a cracking 10...but he clearly lacks a few tools to bridge the gap between league/HC and test level.

Sure. In a Ross v Sexton debate there's only 1 winner. If Harry bolts and becomes the next Sexton, then it's a short debate too.

In a contest of our flawed outhalf versus their differently flawed outhalf then it's more complex. But we're having the latter debate, we're talking about the depth chart and managing as best we can without an elite outhalf, if we need to. Not which one is going to start for the Lions.

Pointing out that Ross isn't world class may be true but it isn't useful. Neither is Burns, neither is Carty and based on form Carbery ain't there either.

If I wanted to give Irish development minutes to someone Harry Byrne makes a lot of sense. Carbery will get more chances because of games in the bank from a long long time ago. But Ross Byrne is the one I'd pick in a must win game.

You're missing my point, as are quite a few others above. I'm not sure if wilfully or otherwise.

The reason this discussion starter was because OTT made the claim Ross wasn't being picked for Ireland because he 'didn’t move teams when asked to' and his days are numbered for Ireland.

I'm saying (again) that the reason he's not picked for Ireland regularly and sometimes struggles at the highest level is because he lacks athleticism and an attacking game. Whatever you claim about Carty, Carbery and even Burns, they don't. Maybe it's worth asking why these guys seem to be ahead of him in the pecking order instead of just saying 'stupid Faz, what an idiot!'.

Ross is far easier to shut down, particularly when his pack isn't absolutely on top and he's forced to try things. He has worked on that side of the game, but he has a tendancy to not get square to the line, just stand and deliver and shovel pressure onwards.

I didn't say anything about being 'world class'.

Funnily enough I was defending Ross last week too. Things don't have to be absolutely black and white. You can BOTH think he's a fine player and want him to have a long career with us AND think that he's probably limited by physique and attacking game too.

[OTT]

The reason this discussion starter was because OTT made the claim Ross wasn't being picked for Ireland because he 'didn’t move teams when asked to' and his days are numbered for Ireland.

You love to tell people they are being selective and building straw men (it was never an argument so no need for any straw man being built). The discussion was about Ross Byrne potentially having a choice to make at the end of this season about his future because he is getting overlooked for Ireland behind an average (to be kind) 10 in Burns and a guy who hasn’t played a good game of rugby in 3 years (Carbery) and at Leinster he is behind Sexton and potentially might get overtaken by his brother Harry. That was the discussion in a rumour mill thread but you wanted to disagree with everything even though you haven’t really disagreed with anything I’ve said you just seem to want to be right by using different words.

Anyway you can go back and fight with your own posts, you’re not making any sense now.

[Dexter]

Burns gets picked for Ireland and he's an inferior 10 to RB, in many people's opinion,

[dropkick]

Burns gets picked for Ireland and he's an inferior 10 to RB, in many people's opinion,

RB is too slow. Test rugby is about speed and power and its where you find elite athletes. RB is athletically speaking, far off the average man on the street. Same reason Shane Daly is preferred by the Ireland coaches to Mike Haley who is preferred by the munster coaches. Speed.


Billy Burns gets far less time on the ball for Ulster than RB does for Leinster.

[OneLungDavy]

Am I the only one who thinks Burns is the better player of the two?

[wixfjord]

The reason this discussion starter was because OTT made the claim Ross wasn't being picked for Ireland because he 'didn’t move teams when asked to' and his days are numbered for Ireland.

You love to tell people they are being selective and building straw men (it was never an argument so no need for any straw man being built). The discussion was about Ross Byrne potentially having a choice to make at the end of this season about his future because he is getting overlooked for Ireland behind an average (to be kind) 10 in Burns and a guy who hasn’t played a good game of rugby in 3 years (Carbery) and at Leinster he is behind Sexton and potentially might get overtaken by his brother Harry. That was the discussion in a rumour mill thread but you wanted to disagree with everything even though you haven’t really disagreed with anything I’ve said you just seem to want to be right by using different words.

Anyway you can go back and fight with your own posts, you’re not making any sense now.

I mean that is literally what you said.

Who got the two undeserved starts off no tangible form for Ireland in the Summer, the guy who moved teams when asked to.

Who played second fiddle for Ireland last season behind an average 10 in Billy Burns, the guy who didn’t move teams when asked to.

Ross Byrne’s days look numbered for Ireland.

(I think it's fairly clear and sensical what my position on RB is, given I've said the same thing quite a few times now.

I don't think him being selected or not for Ireland is anything to do with him 'not moving teams when ask to'.

[OTT]

You’ve forgotten the rest of my initial post by mistake, you actually have cut it mid sentence by mistake and added a full stop by mistake that I didn’t have in the initial post.

Not selective at all.

I’m tapping out now, another win for wixfjord. Well done.