Rumour Mill

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limecat
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by limecat »

Dave Cahill wrote:
March 31st, 2021, 9:45 am
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erskinechilders
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by erskinechilders »

I think the thought of givng PDST a 600k one-year contract is what sticks out, especially consdiring Hanrahan and Sweetnam were both let go, and JVG used COVID as the reason. Munster seem very much at sea at the moment, from the top down.

Their CEO wants to and is going out and making these big name signings, not a great image in this climate.

Their management team are under serious pressure after pretty much zero progress in 4 years. They also come across as being almost deluded as to their progress.

They are taking extremely long to blood and develop a golden generation of Academy prospects, and hindering their development by blocking access to the senior team by signing South Africans.

Nucifora gives them Leinsters most exciting prospect ( Carbery ) and then persuades another very exciting prospect ( Salanoa ) to go back on his word and move to Munster.

It's almost getting pathetic the handouts they've been given over the last few years.

Their senior players deserve to take an enormous amount of blame IMO. Jackman raised this on off the ball recently. POM, Murray, Earls, Stander, Holland, Ryan, Archer, Kilcoyne, O'Donnell have all been pretty much anonymous in recent big games.

Their senior players have also played under 4 different head coaches and its' always the coaches fault. They've gotten rid of Penney, Axel, Flannery, Jones and now they have Rowntree, Larkham & JVG. When is it people are going to blame the players and the not the coaches?

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cormac
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by cormac »

blockhead wrote:
March 31st, 2021, 9:35 am
cormac wrote:
March 31st, 2021, 9:04 am
blockhead wrote:
March 31st, 2021, 8:49 am
Surley nobody can have a problem with someone very rich investing some of their money in Rugby? We need more of that, not less.
How about the guy that gave us our shiny new training facility?
It depends on what the money is being invested in. Investing funds in training facilities is a long-term benefit. Investing it in overseas signing while decent local talent are being let go is FAI-level short-term thinking.
The benefactor probably put conditions on the investment. General salaries and facilities up keep probably wasn't one of those conditions.
Now, to my mind, it would a sackable offence for any CEO to say "No thanks, Mr/Mrs Millionare. Sure we can't pay the wages of all the players already have. You keep that money, it wouldn't look good. Go spend it on the local hurling scene, again"
I very much doubt that JP McManus is going to the Munster CEO and telling them here's €600k to sign Pieter Steph du Toit (or any other giant Saffer you care to mention), I'd imagine that conversation is very much instigated by the Munster CEO.
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Oldschool
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Oldschool »

Serb wrote:
March 31st, 2021, 1:48 am
It was rumoured that someone was subsidising Sexton’s wages to get him back in blue. Heaslip was also being subsidised allegedly. It’s mentioned in this article from 2016.

https://the42.ie/3050316
The fact that some of Ireland’s top players now have their contracts topped-up by private money is perhaps partly behind the loosening of the stance.

Johnny Sexton and Jamie Heaslip are thought to be among those players, while the highly-lucrative new Connacht contract – a provincial one, rather than a central IRFU contract – Bundee Aki recently agreed is also believed to have been contributed to by an outside source.
Big difference is that they're are Irish qualified so both province and national team benefit from external largesse.
Signing DeToit or D'allende does nothing for the national team and is probably counterproductive.
Nothing wrong with benefactors benefactoring but it's up to the provinces and IRFU to ensure the money is spent on the right players.
Zebo (cue abuse but from a Munster point of view he has a bit of x factor for the fans) and D Ryan (in particular) are two players that Munster should have used benefactor's money to keep.
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mildlyinterested
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by mildlyinterested »

Oldschool wrote:
March 31st, 2021, 10:39 am
Serb wrote:
March 31st, 2021, 1:48 am
It was rumoured that someone was subsidising Sexton’s wages to get him back in blue. Heaslip was also being subsidised allegedly. It’s mentioned in this article from 2016.

https://the42.ie/3050316
The fact that some of Ireland’s top players now have their contracts topped-up by private money is perhaps partly behind the loosening of the stance.

Johnny Sexton and Jamie Heaslip are thought to be among those players, while the highly-lucrative new Connacht contract – a provincial one, rather than a central IRFU contract – Bundee Aki recently agreed is also believed to have been contributed to by an outside source.
Big difference is that they're are Irish qualified so both province and national team benefit from external largesse.
Signing DeToit or D'allende does nothing for the national team and is probably counterproductive.
Nothing wrong with benefactors benefactoring but it's up to the provinces and IRFU to ensure the money is spent on the right players.
Zebo (cue abuse) and D Ryan (in particular) are two players that Munster should have used benefactor's money to keep.
I think Ryan was leaving regardless of money. Could be wrong but thought it was a related to where he wanted to live.

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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by joooooe »

mildlyinterested wrote:
March 31st, 2021, 10:42 am
Oldschool wrote:
March 31st, 2021, 10:39 am
Serb wrote:
March 31st, 2021, 1:48 am
It was rumoured that someone was subsidising Sexton’s wages to get him back in blue. Heaslip was also being subsidised allegedly. It’s mentioned in this article from 2016.

https://the42.ie/3050316
Big difference is that they're are Irish qualified so both province and national team benefit from external largesse.
Signing DeToit or D'allende does nothing for the national team and is probably counterproductive.
Nothing wrong with benefactors benefactoring but it's up to the provinces and IRFU to ensure the money is spent on the right players.
Zebo (cue abuse) and D Ryan (in particular) are two players that Munster should have used benefactor's money to keep.
I think Ryan was leaving regardless of money. Could be wrong but thought it was a related to where he wanted to live.
Yeah, he said on Second Captains a couple of years ago he wanted to play in France and would have turned down an IRFU offer. Maybe it was a fig leaf but he seems genuine in every other respect so no need to doubt him on this. Zebo was similar, but probably would have jumped aboard the JPMcM gravy train if it was in the station.

Re investment, it's not inconceivable that a billionaire fan would knock on the door of the CEO and say "I want to make sure you guys win another Heineken Cup. What do you need from me?" I would if I was in the same position (should have taken that left turn at Albuquerque).

Leinster said "great, get us out of this office above Khan's Balti House and build us a proper gym". Munster were like a mule with a spinning wheel. Imagine they had said "€2m? Yes please, we're going to hire and train 12 development officers, 2 for each county, upgrade the gym, and sign a world class prop for 3 years."

But no, they bought the monorail. And worse is that the fans were THRILLED with this. "I'm sorry, mom, the mob has spoken."

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blockhead
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by blockhead »

Of course, Muster still have probably half that E600k swinging, ready to spend on someone else. Brace youselves!
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Theleinsterlad
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Theleinsterlad »

Oldschool wrote:
March 31st, 2021, 10:39 am
Serb wrote:
March 31st, 2021, 1:48 am
It was rumoured that someone was subsidising Sexton’s wages to get him back in blue. Heaslip was also being subsidised allegedly. It’s mentioned in this article from 2016.

https://the42.ie/3050316
The fact that some of Ireland’s top players now have their contracts topped-up by private money is perhaps partly behind the loosening of the stance.

Johnny Sexton and Jamie Heaslip are thought to be among those players, while the highly-lucrative new Connacht contract – a provincial one, rather than a central IRFU contract – Bundee Aki recently agreed is also believed to have been contributed to by an outside source.
Big difference is that they're are Irish qualified so both province and national team benefit from external largesse.
Signing DeToit or D'allende does nothing for the national team and is probably counterproductive.
Nothing wrong with benefactors benefactoring but it's up to the provinces and IRFU to ensure the money is spent on the right players.
Zebo (cue abuse but from a Munster point of view he has a bit of x factor for the fans) and D Ryan (in particular) are two players that Munster should have used benefactor's money to keep.
While I agree that irish qualified players are important I don’t agree that signing a non irish player can be counterproductive. Signing the right experienced foreign player that is going to add something to the mix and help give experience to junior players coming up is always a good thing (ie Brad thorn and Scott fardy). Even rocky bled belief into a young back row team coming through at the time. In fairness to Munster this was also seens by guys like dougie howlett coming through. However if it’s just purely to be a big name signing especially when you already have the likes of long time ints POM & Beirne in the team that’s not going to add extra

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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by The Doc »

joooooe wrote:
March 31st, 2021, 11:19 am

But no, they bought the monorail. And worse is that the fans were THRILLED with this. "I'm sorry, mom, the mob has spoken."
THIS - I was trying to think of what the whole spectacle is like - and it's the Monorail episode of The Simpsons. It's perfect
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by FLIP »

The Doc wrote:
March 31st, 2021, 12:04 pm
joooooe wrote:
March 31st, 2021, 11:19 am

But no, they bought the monorail. And worse is that the fans were THRILLED with this. "I'm sorry, mom, the mob has spoken."
THIS - I was trying to think of what the whole spectacle is like - and it's the Monorail episode of The Simpsons. It's perfect
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Serb
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Serb »

Keep picturing van Graan as Leonard Nimoy at the end of that episode.

“My work here is done”.
“But you didn’t do anything!”
“Didn’t I?”

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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by wixfjord »

joooooe wrote:
March 31st, 2021, 11:19 am


Yeah, he said on Second Captains a couple of years ago he wanted to play in France and would have turned down an IRFU offer. Maybe it was a fig leaf but he seems genuine in every other respect so no need to doubt him on this. Zebo was similar, but probably would have jumped aboard the JPMcM gravy train if it was in the station.

Re investment, it's not inconceivable that a billionaire fan would knock on the door of the CEO and say "I want to make sure you guys win another Heineken Cup. What do you need from me?" I would if I was in the same position (should have taken that left turn at Albuquerque).

Leinster said "great, get us out of this office above Khan's Balti House and build us a proper gym". Munster were like a mule with a spinning wheel. Imagine they had said "€2m? Yes please, we're going to hire and train 12 development officers, 2 for each county, upgrade the gym, and sign a world class prop for 3 years."

But no, they bought the monorail. And worse is that the fans were THRILLED with this. "I'm sorry, mom, the mob has spoken."
World class post :lol:

I mean this approach has worked well in Ogdenville and North Haverbrook, so why not in Munster?!

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Dave Cahill
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Dave Cahill »

<pedant>They were above Cafe Mao</pedant>
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by fourthirtythree »

You'd have to be mad to move out of the sweet spot above a balti house. Mao... Not so much.
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Fireworks
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Fireworks »

I am getting confused. How many NIQ guys will they have next year and were there no Irish qualified alternatives in their own ranks.

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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by backrower8 »

So now Munster have 5 expensive 'must-play' players for the back 5 positions in the pack:

Jean Kleyn - Provincial Contract to 2022
Rudolph Snyman - Provincial Contract to 2022

Peter O'Mahony - Central Contract to 2023!!!!
Tadhg Beirne - Provincial Contract to 2022
Jason Jenkins - Provincial Contract to 2022

Only one is a product of Munster.

Potentially leaving no starting slot and 2 bench slots between established players like Coombes, O'Donoghue, F Wycherley, O'Donnell - surely on way out, [Cloete], and home-grown proteges Ahern, Hurley, O'Connor, O'Sullivan, Kelly, Hodnett, Jack Daly, Kendellen.

All of a sudden their 2nd row stocks look excellent but the front-row is very lop-sided by comparison.

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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Serb »

Fireworks wrote:I am getting confused. How many NIQ guys will they have next year and were there no Irish qualified alternatives in their own ranks.
They’ll have three NIQs next year; Snyman, de Allende and Jenkins. The other three South Africans (Knox, Kleyn and Cloete) are Irish qualified as is Salanoa now I believe. Gallagher and Haley were Irish qualified from the beginning.

They have plenty of Irish qualified players in their ranks as mentioned above, but they haven’t really blooded the academy guys for various reasons (8 caps between the three back rows in the academy). Hodnett would likely have gotten a lot more caps but he did his Achilles in November which kept him out for the season.

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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by neiliog93 »

Cloete is also thought to be leaving. I must say, de Allende's rumoured €450k annual salary is looking decidedly undeserved. I do think Snyman is an almost unique athlete in world rugby and world class, so I am sure he will make a big impact for them next season. Jenkins is also well ahead of Kleyn, and will add some genuine billtong (as opposed to Kleyn, who is billtong that looks the part but punches below his size).
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by mildlyinterested »

neiliog93 wrote:
March 31st, 2021, 8:05 pm
Cloete is also thought to be leaving. I must say, de Allende's rumoured €450k annual salary is looking decidedly undeserved. I do think Snyman is an almost unique athlete in world rugby and world class, so I am sure he will make a big impact for them next season. Jenkins is also well ahead of Kleyn, and will add some genuine billtong (as opposed to Kleyn, who is billtong that looks the part but punches below his size).
not leaving this season, has a contract until 2022.

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Theleinsterlad
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Theleinsterlad »

Donal Lenihan on the RTÉ rugby podcast gave great insight into the sh!t that seems to be going on in Munster re: development. He was saying there is a politics war going on and it’s due to the fact that Munster is actually broken into north Munster and south Munster and that the club game that used to be their version of our schools system player route is breaking down because of it. I know I love watching us beat Munster but listening to him I was even getting worried for the long term future of Munster being able to continue to be able to compete and push us to get better.

You would really have to say is Connaught more of our rivals these days as they have beaten us on a couple of occasions over the last number of years and have won a trophy (I jest but then do I?!)

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