Rumour Mill

[Oldschoolsocks]

Am I the only one who thinks Burns is the better player of the two?

only if you don't count Billy Bunrnses Mam

[ronk]

Byrne is far and away the highest profile public example of refusing pressure to move. He did interviews.

When Carbery was under pressure to move he said no initially but changed his mind quickly when Byrne make the summer tour. Byrne then wasn't used and was dropped for subsequent squads for a while.

The Irish coaches have given squad places to help them move around players. It makes sense that this question gets asked in the circumstances.

Especially when players who aren't playing as well are picked ahead of him.

[the spoofer]

Byrne is far and away the highest profile public example of refusing pressure to move. He did interviews.

When Carbery was under pressure to move he said no initially but changed his mind quickly when Byrne make the summer tour. Byrne then wasn't used and was dropped for subsequent squads for a while.

The Irish coaches have given squad places to help them move around players. It makes sense that this question gets asked in the circumstances.

Especially when players who aren't playing as well are picked ahead of him.

I was at a gig where Joe spoke about the Carbery move. IRFU were originally looking for someone to go to Ulster but both said no. Then they asked Ross to go to Munster, he said why would he when he was starting regularly for Leinster and he was making progress. They then asked Carbery to move and he did. I really think we have and will continue to have the better of that deal.

[Keith]

Byrne is far and away the highest profile public example of refusing pressure to move. He did interviews.

When Carbery was under pressure to move he said no initially but changed his mind quickly when Byrne make the summer tour. Byrne then wasn't used and was dropped for subsequent squads for a while.

The Irish coaches have given squad places to help them move around players. It makes sense that this question gets asked in the circumstances.

Especially when players who aren't playing as well are picked ahead of him.

I was at a gig where Joe spoke about the Carbery move. IRFU were originally looking for someone to go to Ulster but both said no. Then they asked Ross to go to Munster, he said why would he when he was starting regularly for Leinster and he was making progress. They then asked Carbery to move and he did. I really think we have and will continue to have the better of that deal.

I thought this at the time too, mainly because I saw Carbery as a FB rather than a flyhalf.

[ronk]

If it had been my choice, I would have kept them both.

[curates_egg]

Three pages discussing the wrong player mentioned in this bought content from the players’ agent (I wonder what restaurant Niall took ROC to).

I see no risk in us losing Byrne. Highly valued by Leinster coaches, and lacks the attributes to make him a target for French sides.

Ruddock will be an interesting one. Like others on here, I have been convinced that he is the best blindside on the island for at least five years. He’s a super player. An amazing athlete, with attributes that are highly sought after in France (where “unseen work” is less rated).
Not only might they be motivated to sign him, it might be difficult for Leinster to keep so many excellent backrows on their books.
For Rhys, with international recognition looking like remaining elusive, a big pay cheque in the south of France might be attractive.
I rate him extremely highly and would hate to lose him, but he’s not the choice of hipsters or marketing executives.

[Dave Cahill]

and lacks the attributes to make him a target for French sides.

I'd say he has ALL the attributes to make him a target for French side.

The first three questions a French club coach asks about a potential outhalf.
1) How's his kicking?
2) No really, how is his kicking?
3) So you're saying he is a good kicker?

[curates_egg]

and lacks the attributes to make him a target for French sides.

I'd say he has ALL the attributes to make him a target for French side.

The first three questions a French club coach asks about a potential outhalf.
1) How's his kicking?
2) No really, how is his kicking?
3) So you're saying he is a good kicker?

We must be talking about different Frances. In my France, half the kickers aren’t outhalves and almost all the sides have running outhalves. Is your France part of an island to the east of Ireland?

[Dave Cahill]

We must be talking about different Frances. In my France, half the kickers aren’t outhalves and almost all the sides have running outhalves. Is your France part of an island to the east of Ireland?

This is the France with the TOP14, the most boring tournament in world rugby where the most influential outhalves of the last 20 years were Lionel Beauxis, Jonny Wilkinson and David Skrela, and where the national teams outhalf is the outhalf who kicked the ball the most last season, from the team that kicked the ball the most in the Top14.

[wixfjord]

I think things have moved on though. Looking at the top teams in Top 14 now. Teams still kick, but I don't think there are 'kicking outhalves' to the same degree - Russell, West, Ntamack, Belleau, Jalibert, Lopez, Sopoaga.

Pollard is probably the closest to that profile.

[Dave Cahill]

I think things have moved on though. Looking at the top teams in Top 14 now. Teams still kick, but I don't think there are 'kicking outhalves' to the same degree - Russell, West, Ntamack, Belleau, Jalibert, Lopez, Sopoaga.

Pollard is probably the closest to that profile.

Yeah, it has moved on in the last two or three years - certainly from the 90s and noughties where nearly every game was like watching a Munster Senior Cup game between Young Munster and Young Munster - but it is still the European league with the most kicking.

[curates_egg]

I think things have moved on though. Looking at the top teams in Top 14 now. Teams still kick, but I don't think there are 'kicking outhalves' to the same degree - Russell, West, Ntamack, Belleau, Jalibert, Lopez, Sopoaga.

Pollard is probably the closest to that profile.

Those are the players I have in mind alright.

Toulouse, in particular, prove my point: they play with an outhalf who rarely kicks (either from hand or tee).
If you look at the table of top place kickers, while there are fewer non-10 kickers than a few years ago, the proportion of non-10 kickers remains very high (it’s lower than half, as I first said, and more like 1/3).

My point holds: I’m not sure what French club would pick Byrne as their 10. Maybe Montpellier.

And the other side of point is that I believe he is very highly rated by our coaches, and also clearly wants to stay in Leinster. So, long story longer, I struggle to see a scenario in which he leaves.

Rhys, on the other hand, I would worry about.

[Dave Cahill]

I think things have moved on though. Looking at the top teams in Top 14 now. Teams still kick, but I don't think there are 'kicking outhalves' to the same degree - Russell, West, Ntamack, Belleau, Jalibert, Lopez, Sopoaga.

Pollard is probably the closest to that profile.

Those are the players I have in mind alright.

Toulouse, in particular, prove my point: they play with an outhalf who rarely kicks (either from hand or tee).
If you look at the table of top place kickers, while there are fewer non-10 kickers than a few years ago, the proportion of non-10 kickers remains very high (it’s lower than half, as I first said, and more like 1/3).

My point holds: I’m not sure what French club would pick Byrne as their 10. Maybe Montpellier.

And the other side of point is that I believe he is very highly rated by our coaches, and also clearly wants to stay in Leinster. So, long story longer, I struggle to see a scenario in which he leaves.

Rhys, on the other hand, I would worry about.

Toulouse have always been the exception though, they are the Burnley of the Top14 in that they play the game a different way to the rest of the league. They even try to win away games.

I wan't talking about goalkicking, maybe thats where there is some confusion. I was talking about kicking in play.

[curates_egg]

I think things have moved on though. Looking at the top teams in Top 14 now. Teams still kick, but I don't think there are 'kicking outhalves' to the same degree - Russell, West, Ntamack, Belleau, Jalibert, Lopez, Sopoaga.

Pollard is probably the closest to that profile.

Those are the players I have in mind alright.

Toulouse, in particular, prove my point: they play with an outhalf who rarely kicks (either from hand or tee).
If you look at the table of top place kickers, while there are fewer non-10 kickers than a few years ago, the proportion of non-10 kickers remains very high (it’s lower than half, as I first said, and more like 1/3).

My point holds: I’m not sure what French club would pick Byrne as their 10. Maybe Montpellier.

And the other side of point is that I believe he is very highly rated by our coaches, and also clearly wants to stay in Leinster. So, long story longer, I struggle to see a scenario in which he leaves.

Rhys, on the other hand, I would worry about.

Toulouse have always been the exception though, they are the Burnley of the Top14 in that they play the game a different way to the rest of the league. They even try to win away games.

I wan't talking about goalkicking, maybe thats where there is some confusion. I was talking about kicking in play.

Ah. Yes, that was crossed wires.
Toulouse aren’t the only ones that are now using their outhalves as running options (look at Racing’s evolution, for example) but there are definitely a good few that rely a lot on kicking: Montpellier, Lyon, even La Rochelle to an extent.

Regardless, I just don’t think there’s either a push or pull factor for RB. Time will tell.

[ronk]

I think part of the Byrne rumour is coming from JJ, but it's a very different case. That was JJs 3rd move, he was 29 so it was his last chance for a payday and his position was imploding. He was getting out while he still had capital. It was very clear the way fans pivoted to Ben Healy after a few games that he was on borrowed time. JvG ain't a good boss when he doesn't need you anymore and the renewal offer wouldn't have been great. Munster weren't put out that JJ left, they probably weren't yet at force him out stage but they were planning beyond him.

Ruddock and Byrne can be 1 club men. Time is on Byrne's side. Sexton is going, Frawley is settling at 12. Carbery left. There's no star imminently coming down the pipeline. Even if Harry bolts Ross still is needed.

Ruddock is a key player. Josh Murphy isn't an elite threat right now and Soroka is coming from the 20s. They're settled. Nothing is guaranteed, but they're not undervalued in Leinster so there's little incentive to move.

[hugonaut]

I think part of the Byrne rumour is coming from JJ, but it's a very different case. That was JJs 3rd move, he was 29 so it was his last chance for a payday and his position was imploding. He was getting out while he still had capital. It was very clear the way fans pivoted to Ben Healy after a few games that he was on borrowed time. JvG ain't a good boss when he doesn't need you anymore and the renewal offer wouldn't have been great. Munster weren't put out that JJ left, they probably weren't yet at force him out stage but they were planning beyond him.

Ruddock and Byrne can be 1 club men. Time is on Byrne's side. Sexton is going, Frawley is settling at 12. Carbery left. There's no star imminently coming down the pipeline. Even if Harry bolts Ross still is needed.

Ruddock is a key player. Josh Murphy isn't an elite threat right now and Soroka is coming from the 20s. They're settled. Nothing is guaranteed, but they're not undervalued in Leinster so there's little incentive to move.

The Byrne 'rumour' is just a kite, and it comes directly from Niall Woods. Obviously I can't be 100% certain on that, but I seriously doubt I'm wrong. Three of his clients are the only guys mentioned in the article and he's got a long history of advising his clients to consider options away from Leinster [and floating same in the press] ... it's all straight from the manual.

There's not an awful lot to it at the moment outside that.

[backrower8]

I think part of the Byrne rumour is coming from JJ, but it's a very different case. That was JJs 3rd move, he was 29 so it was his last chance for a payday and his position was imploding. He was getting out while he still had capital. It was very clear the way fans pivoted to Ben Healy after a few games that he was on borrowed time. JvG ain't a good boss when he doesn't need you anymore and the renewal offer wouldn't have been great. Munster weren't put out that JJ left, they probably weren't yet at force him out stage but they were planning beyond him.

Ruddock and Byrne can be 1 club men. Time is on Byrne's side. Sexton is going, Frawley is settling at 12. Carbery left. There's no star imminently coming down the pipeline. Even if Harry bolts Ross still is needed.

Ruddock is a key player. Josh Murphy isn't an elite threat right now and Soroka is coming from the 20s. They're settled. Nothing is guaranteed, but they're not undervalued in Leinster so there's little incentive to move.

If he is over his injuries, then Leavy is the next 6 after Ruddock, or will be. He didn't before injury and, judging by yesterday's unsuccessful gallop to the line, certainly doesn't now possess VDF, Connors or Penny-like speed across the ground.

[Flash Gordon]

I think part of the Byrne rumour is coming from JJ, but it's a very different case. That was JJs 3rd move, he was 29 so it was his last chance for a payday and his position was imploding. He was getting out while he still had capital. It was very clear the way fans pivoted to Ben Healy after a few games that he was on borrowed time. JvG ain't a good boss when he doesn't need you anymore and the renewal offer wouldn't have been great. Munster weren't put out that JJ left, they probably weren't yet at force him out stage but they were planning beyond him.

Ruddock and Byrne can be 1 club men. Time is on Byrne's side. Sexton is going, Frawley is settling at 12. Carbery left. There's no star imminently coming down the pipeline. Even if Harry bolts Ross still is needed.

Ruddock is a key player. Josh Murphy isn't an elite threat right now and Soroka is coming from the 20s. They're settled. Nothing is guaranteed, but they're not undervalued in Leinster so there's little incentive to move.

The Byrne 'rumour' is just a kite, and it comes directly from Niall Woods. Obviously I can't be 100% certain on that, but I seriously doubt I'm wrong. Three of his clients are the only guys mentioned in the article and he's got a long history of advising his clients to consider options away from Leinster [and floating same in the press] ... it's all straight from the manual.

There's not an awful lot to it at the moment outside that.

Agents should explore options of course. Ross Byrne is a decent league player who could do a job for a club like Pau, Perpignan or Lyon. However, if he wants to put himself in the shop window, performances like his cameo vs Quins and last weekend won't help. The fact that he hasn't made the extended Ireland squad is also not helpful for him.

I still really like the look of Frawley as an Outhalf I have to say.

[CiaranIrl]

Jaysus, cool the jets with the Ross Byrne getting thrown on the trash heap lads. Go back and read the match thread against Exeter to calm your nerves. You know, the one where he was MOTM and was the second coming of Dan Carter.

[RoboProp]

Am I the only one who thinks Burns is the better player of the two?