Rumour Mill

A forum for true blue Leinster supporters to talk about and support their team

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JB1973
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by JB1973 »

carlow man wrote:
April 26th, 2021, 12:54 pm
Nothing on their fans forum apart from they think 2 signings are being announced soon enough
owen Williams the fly half/centre is one by all accounts

furlong is a quantam leap in quality and expense , not going to go there is he?

Toulouse or someone like that maybe but Worcester???

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Flash Gordon
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Flash Gordon »

Logorrhea wrote:
April 26th, 2021, 1:42 pm
id imagine the IRFU/Irish management would have no problem in making an exception for him, selecting him for international duty while abroad.
Not sure about that. Porter is a possible Lions selection and getting better. It's not like Sexton where there was a gulf in class behind him.
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Laighin Break
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Laighin Break »

Porter is having a cracking season but I think Furlong is still one of those players (maybe even the only player) that an exception would be made for. He slotted straight back in ahead of Porter having not played in about a year.

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Flash Gordon
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Flash Gordon »

Laighin Break wrote:
April 26th, 2021, 4:55 pm
Porter is having a cracking season but I think Furlong is still one of those players (maybe even the only player) that an exception would be made for. He slotted straight back in ahead of Porter having not played in about a year.
The convention is that if there's an international class replacement you're out and rightly so in my opinion, our system depends on it so the implications go beyond the matchday selection. Furlong goes and gets picked what's to stop Ryan, Henshaw or even Porter going? Anyway, hopefully hypothetical!
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CiaranIrl
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by CiaranIrl »

Can we please stop talking about whether or not Furlong will be picked for Ireland while playing for a team he won't be playing with?
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Logorrhea
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Logorrhea »

Its the principal we are playing with :) if Furlong goes to a team like Worcester he's pretty much signing off on top class rugby for a few years. All speculative nonsense though yeah.

Leinsterimp
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Leinsterimp »

Would be better for Irish rugby in my opinion if we did start seeing a few of the top players heading abroad after they’ve earned their stripes, and still play for Ireland.

Enables players to earn the cash they deserve and frees up space for other players to make a mark in the European games. Maybe after you’ve had 40/50 national caps?

mildlyinterested
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by mildlyinterested »

Leinsterimp wrote:
April 28th, 2021, 11:24 am
Would be better for Irish rugby in my opinion if we did start seeing a few of the top players heading abroad after they’ve earned their stripes, and still play for Ireland.

Enables players to earn the cash they deserve and frees up space for other players to make a mark in the European games. Maybe after you’ve had 40/50 national caps?
no.

riocard911
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by riocard911 »

Leinsterimp wrote:
April 28th, 2021, 11:24 am
Would be better for Irish rugby in my opinion if we did start seeing a few of the top players heading abroad after they’ve earned their stripes, and still play for Ireland.

Enables players to earn the cash they deserve and frees up space for other players to make a mark in the European games. Maybe after you’ve had 40/50 national caps?
No x2

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Blue not red blood
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Blue not red blood »

NO X 3
And end up like Glasgow Light in Exeter

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Dave Cahill
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Dave Cahill »

Blue not red blood wrote:
April 28th, 2021, 12:26 pm
NO X 3
And end up like Glasgow Light in Exeter
The situation in Scotland is different. They only have two teams, so its strategic for them for players to leave to make room for more players to develop
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riocard911
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by riocard911 »

Blue not red blood wrote:
April 28th, 2021, 12:26 pm
NO X 3
And end up like Glasgow Light in Exeter

LOL!!! Anyone remember the bit in the TV coverage of our recent match in Sandy Park, when one or other BT muppet was waxing lyrical about the "Exeter way" (or a similar description) infusing and rejuvenating the Scottish national team? Which reminded me of The Dubliners' "The sea, o the sea, a ghrá gheal mo chroí ... thank God we're surrounded by water!"

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TrapperChamonix
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by TrapperChamonix »

Dave Cahill wrote:
April 28th, 2021, 12:31 pm
Blue not red blood wrote:
April 28th, 2021, 12:26 pm
NO X 3
And end up like Glasgow Light in Exeter
The situation in Scotland is different. They only have two teams, so its strategic for them for players to leave to make room for more players to develop
Glasgow have lost their best (or one of their best) player every year for the last 10 years. That's not a strategic plan, that's lack of funds.
2021 Hastings
2020 Swinson J Gray
2019 Hogg
2018 Russell
2017 Josh Strauss
2016 Nakarawa
2015 Maitland
2014 DTH Van der Merve
2013 Barclay
2012 R Gray J. Beattie
2011
2010 Kelly Brown

If it is a strategic plan, it makes no sense. How anyone invests any time and money into supporting Glasgow is beyond me.

In the same period of time, the only comparable (ie senior players guaranteed to be in 1st team) loss Leinster suffered was Sexton going to Paris for 2 year, not getting an extension for 35 year old Hynes and maybe you could argue about Jack McGrath. All the other losses we have had are about back ups or 3rd choice players.

Playing for Ireland is part of the package that assists retention
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Dave Cahill
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Dave Cahill »

TrapperChamonix wrote:
April 28th, 2021, 1:47 pm

Glasgow have lost their best (or one of their best) player every year for the last 10 years. That's not a strategic plan, that's lack of funds.
2021 Hastings
2020 Swinson J Gray
2019 Hogg
2018 Russell
2017 Josh Strauss
2016 Nakarawa
2015 Maitland
2014 DTH Van der Merve
2013 Barclay
2012 R Gray J. Beattie
2011
2010 Kelly Brown

If it is a strategic plan, it makes no sense. How anyone invests any time and money into supporting Glasgow is beyond me.

In the same period of time, the only comparable (ie senior players guaranteed to be in 1st team) loss Leinster suffered was Sexton going to Paris for 2 year, not getting an extension for 35 year old Hynes and maybe you could argue about Jack McGrath. All the other losses we have had are about back ups or 3rd choice players.

Playing for Ireland is part of the package that assists retention
You're missing the point. You're appoaching this from the point of view of the Irish system, how it works and what it needs - Scotland isn't part of the Irish system and have their own needs and it makes sense for them.

They don't care about retention, for Scotland, retention isn't a good thing. They only have 46 selection slots each weekend - they aren't going to run a national team on 46 players. Ireland has 92 and this year the provinces will use around 150 players - and some believe thats at the lowest end of what's needed to run a successful national team.

With such limited opportunity, if they retained players, they'd never develop new players - there simply isn't the opportunity for them to play. So they need either more franchises or to move players on. If the absolute epicentre of scottish rugby, the border region, isn't interested in a franchise, then they aren't going to get one anywhere else, so the only option they have is to constantly shift players out to other countries. They still have them for the national team in window, and they have those limited selection slots available for the next generation.

They aren't particularly worried about Glasgow or Edinburgh as entities in and of themselves, they are only interested in them in terms of what they can do for the National team. Yes it's nice when they do well, and every so often a good group of players will come together at the right time and they may be successful, but that is not a goal. The goal is to get those good players into the scottish side and out of the scottish system to let the next group come through. Scotland's history, both in war and in sport (which has replaced war) has always been, literally, mercenary.
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Twist
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Twist »

I can see your point, but if they're letting players move on wouldn't they want to let the second tier go and keep their superstars like Hogg, Russell, Gray etc at home? If only to manage them properly

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Dave Cahill
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Dave Cahill »

Twist wrote:
April 28th, 2021, 2:55 pm
I can see your point, but if they're letting players move on wouldn't they want to let the second tier go and keep their superstars like Hogg, Russell, Gray etc at home? If only to manage them properly
Who would want them? Would any non scottish team be interested in an u20s utility back with a handful of appearances? Not in the slightest. But they are interested in 50 cap Blair Kinghorn (for example)
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Ruckedtobits
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Leinsterimp wrote:
April 28th, 2021, 11:24 am
Would be better for Irish rugby in my opinion if we did start seeing a few of the top players heading abroad after they’ve earned their stripes, and still play for Ireland.

Enables players to earn the cash they deserve and frees up space for other players to make a mark in the European games. Maybe after you’ve had 40/50 national caps?
Definitely not. It starts the dismantling of Leinster by the multiplication of agents from English & French Clubs at all under-age Leinster fixtures and corresponding recruitment of the best players.

It is a fine balance at present and we're currently surviving at Provincial and National level. Whether you accept it or not, our opponents in those countries attribute it to a combination of:

1. Leinster player development / talent spotting;
2. Exclusion from international selection of overseas-based players;
3. Unique professional player tax-relief at career end for players ending career with minimum years.

Whether these factors are attributed to accident / planning / coincidence, they have contributed to a period of 10+ years of Irish Provinces and National team being competitive. I'm certainly not in favour of surrendering the position we have established.

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TrapperChamonix
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by TrapperChamonix »

Dave Cahill wrote:
April 28th, 2021, 2:27 pm
TrapperChamonix wrote:
April 28th, 2021, 1:47 pm

Glasgow have lost their best (or one of their best) player every year for the last 10 years. That's not a strategic plan, that's lack of funds.
2021 Hastings
2020 Swinson J Gray
2019 Hogg
2018 Russell
2017 Josh Strauss
2016 Nakarawa
2015 Maitland
2014 DTH Van der Merve
2013 Barclay
2012 R Gray J. Beattie
2011
2010 Kelly Brown

If it is a strategic plan, it makes no sense. How anyone invests any time and money into supporting Glasgow is beyond me.

In the same period of time, the only comparable (ie senior players guaranteed to be in 1st team) loss Leinster suffered was Sexton going to Paris for 2 year, not getting an extension for 35 year old Hynes and maybe you could argue about Jack McGrath. All the other losses we have had are about back ups or 3rd choice players.

Playing for Ireland is part of the package that assists retention
You're missing the point. You're appoaching this from the point of view of the Irish system, how it works and what it needs - Scotland isn't part of the Irish system and have their own needs and it makes sense for them.

They don't care about retention, for Scotland, retention isn't a good thing. They only have 46 selection slots each weekend - they aren't going to run a national team on 46 players. Ireland has 92 and this year the provinces will use around 150 players - and some believe thats at the lowest end of what's needed to run a successful national team.

With such limited opportunity, if they retained players, they'd never develop new players - there simply isn't the opportunity for them to play. So they need either more franchises or to move players on. If the absolute epicentre of scottish rugby, the border region, isn't interested in a franchise, then they aren't going to get one anywhere else, so the only option they have is to constantly shift players out to other countries. They still have them for the national team in window, and they have those limited selection slots available for the next generation.

They aren't particularly worried about Glasgow or Edinburgh as entities in and of themselves, they are only interested in them in terms of what they can do for the National team. Yes it's nice when they do well, and every so often a good group of players will come together at the right time and they may be successful, but that is not a goal. The goal is to get those good players into the scottish side and out of the scottish system to let the next group come through. Scotland's history, both in war and in sport (which has replaced war) has always been, literally, mercenary.
Supposition or is there a reference for this?
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Jonny tight lips
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Jonny tight lips »

Leinsterimp wrote:
April 28th, 2021, 11:24 am
Would be better for Irish rugby in my opinion if we Could start seeing a few of the top players heading abroad after they’ve earned their stripes, and still play for Ireland.

Enables players to earn the cash they deserve and frees up space for other players to make a mark in the European games. Maybe after you’ve had 40/50 national caps?
Leinster says No. Could really harm our chances In Europe if we lost a few

Keith
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Re: Rumour Mill

Post by Keith »

Leinsterimp wrote:
April 28th, 2021, 11:24 am
Would be better for Irish rugby in my opinion if we did start seeing a few of the top players heading abroad after they’ve earned their stripes, and still play for Ireland.

Enables players to earn the cash they deserve and frees up space for other players to make a mark in the European games. Maybe after you’ve had 40/50 national caps?
Who says they aren't earning what they deserve here? You do realise the wages available here at Leinster are more than competitive to anywhere else in the world...

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