Clermont - The Game

[illthinkofsomething]

I think the issue is that with some ASM players there looks to be significant intent. The player I lost any respect for was Bonnaire after the game in the Aviva. While D'Arcy was bridging over a ruck he stamped at his knee sideways. You might remember D'Arcy having a go at Bonnaire after he did it.

i think leo's grab had significant intent. hard to imagine he had anything other than inflicting intense discomfort (at least) in mind when he reached out

i agree that some of the asm actions do look particularly bad, and i am not going to defend them

however, french club rugby is historically more violent than the same game elsewhere in the northern hemisphere. this is the land where gouging is a routine occurance

i doubt that asm are any more violent or 'dirty' than most other french club teams. it would be interesting to get the views of players who have faced all the top french teams

I rember tackling a fellah when I was a young lad and ending up holding hothing but his jewels.......the man just kept running dragging me along (I felt) I just let go I think I cared more about his nads than he did....

[berniemac67]

I rember tackling a fellah when I was a young lad and ending up holding hothing but his jewels.......the man just kept running dragging me along (I felt) I just let go I think I cared more about his nads than he did....

great stuff

[Twist]

I notice one of the posters on the Tigers board who referred to us as 'Cheating Micks' also has '88' in his name, coincidence?

Jesus I'm shocked at some of the bile on that board. "Cheating Micks", "No Surrender" (which goes hand in hand with the ignorance of referring to Ulster as Northern Ireland), "Mexicans". Add to that the bizarre conspiracy theories - it's the level of hatred you'd get on Our Wee Country*. About the same level of rugby knowledge too

(*It's a reservation where elders of the internet have put the bigots)

[johng]

Speaking of highlights - Johng, any chance I can get a copy of the game?

Only saw this now. No Focking Way! Get yer own.

[berniemac67]

watching it again now, and can confirm it's just as good the third time around

[sid]

Speaking of highlights - Johng, any chance I can get a copy of the game?

Only saw this now. No Focking Way! Get yer own.

Aw fock. I was about to ask for one of last year's games, but if Xanthippe's getting rejected what hope do I have?

[Oldschool]

I think the issue is that with some ASM players there looks to be significant intent. The player I lost any respect for was Bonnaire after the game in the Aviva. While D'Arcy was bridging over a ruck he stamped at his knee sideways. You might remember D'Arcy having a go at Bonnaire after he did it.

i think leo's grab had significant intent. hard to imagine he had anything other than inflicting intense discomfort (at least) in mind when he reached out

i agree that some of the asm actions do look particularly bad, and i am not going to defend them

however, french club rugby is historically more violent than the same game elsewhere in the northern hemisphere. this is the land where gouging is a routine occurance

i doubt that asm are any more violent or 'dirty' than most other french club teams. it would be interesting to get the views of players who have faced all the top french teams

I rember tackling a fellah when I was a young lad and ending up holding hothing but his jewels.......the man just kept running dragging me along (I felt) I just let go I think I cared more about his nads than he did....

OK Leo so this is not the first time you've done this sort of thing. Are you sure he wasn't a Eunuch?

[Panasonic]

... Could it be seen as a discrete coming out ?

[mhow]

Faure's quite reflective view of the game apologies for google translator version but the gist is clear - those with French can read the original here

http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/coupe-d-e ... tory.shtml

"The Clermont had worn face Leinster"

Posted on 30/04/2012 at 15:59, updated on 30/04/2012 at 16:20

Find answers to all your cat with our special correspondent in Bordeaux, Leo Faure, who debriefed the half between Clermont and Leinster. Many of you have to discuss the reasons for the defeat of Clermont and the dominion and power of the Irish of Leinster.

Juanus: What has happened on the first penalty with Sivivatu?

Leo FAURE: It should actually be the second Leinster penalty. New Zealand winger, otherwise very good Sunday, is guilty of a screen bringing three points Sexton. This is particularly unfortunate because the Clermont had to provide hard to register three points and also that a few seconds later, they offer them at Leinster. Too easy and pointless, especially as the candle of Rob Kearney was too long.

Blaise: Can we say that arbitration has affected the result (of mixed arbitration, on screen Nacewa, yellow cards and forgotten for Cullen D'arcy)?

FAURE Leo: This is the case on all rugby matches. This sport leaves a significant part in the discretion of the referee. In terms of mixed, it is a recurring problem of French clubs, who meet in a foreign arbitration different from that of the Top 14 in this sector. It might be up to us to adapt ourselves to think. For the rest, though some decisions may seem contentious, they have been in both directions. Finally, I do not think arbitration has chosen the winner, in the sense that the best Sunday won.

Thzo: Why have they lost? What went wrong?

Leo FAURE: It is essentially a matter of experience. Enormous heart, and Clermont-Ferrand have certainly been taken in managing the game. The Irish have scored them on almost all the highlights. Conversely, when they were suffering, they managed to escape the pressure of occupation by the foot. Enthusiastic, and Clermont-Ferrand were perhaps too sought to energize the start of a game when they had the wind at your back. A detailed strategic cost them dearly in the end. In a game very dynamic, Leinster can support many game time and are very difficult to take. The Clermont had worn.

Peter: The early exit from Malzieu and Byrne was it detrimental to Clermont in your opinion?

Leo FAURE: It is a certainty. Already because it did more to Vern Cotter strategic alternative behind during a match. Secondly, because, as we have seen, the Clermont would have needed fresh late in the game. Sentenced to up the field, they are exhausted and have had enormous difficulties in the offensive replacement for chaining playing time effectively. The last last stand is amazing on pride of Clermont, but the freshness has clearly failed.

Jerome: The MAATS is it capable of being champion of France this year after this defeat?

FAURE Leo: Rebounding will be difficult. But they have a strong group experience. With this defeat, they did not merely on the European stage their hunger for titles. They will obviously very serious contenders for the Brennus. After the Top 14 finals will deliver their verdict. But to think that this match ends the season of the MAATS would be a mistake.

SOUTHWEST: If Fofana had marked the test of victory, would you have dared to talk about theft?

Leo FAURE: A flight certainly not, as the Clermont threw all their strength in this meeting. But it is clear that on 80 minutes, the ASM has dominated barely thirty. On the start to the match, do not forget they are pierced three times (Boss, Sexton and Nacewa). Same in the second half, with three crossings Irish (Kearney, Sexton and O'Brien) and a period almost entirely dominated by Leinster. The Clermont did not blush, the machine is impressive Irish. Leinster is also underway for a third European title in four years, which would be historic. This will position a team ...

Guest: What are the personalities that emerged clermontoises lot yesterday?

Leo FAURE: In the positive direction, Davit Zirakashvili impressed. Powerful, active, good melee ... No complaints. As usual in fact. Nathan Hines , Alexandre Lapandry, Julien Bonnaire also heavily involved in Clermont allow to compete on the ground. Overall, the whole pack Clermont comes a good match. Behind, Sivivatu was the number one danger for the Irish, with its supports electric. The disappointment would rather the hinge. Morgan Parra , usually so valuable in these games of death, wanted to influence the game much but, in addition to random transmissions, has repeatedly misled guidance of play Brock James , though he was very firm against the poles, also suffered from comparison with Sexton.

ledruide: The Irish test seems almost too easy, what can explain this test taken by Clermont knowing that it is one of the best defenses?

Leo FAURE: In response to this Leinster team, one second of inattention can be fatal. Also very good in defense, the Clermont made the bitter experience. Indeed, Kearney enjoys a communication problem to piercing (too easily) the defensive curtain. After the match, the Clermont recognized elsewhere. One mistake is immediately punished.

Mickey: The difference between the French and Irish championships she has not had an impact on the physical condition of players?

Leo FAURE: It is effectively the second major lesson of this meeting. Beyond the experience, the difference in preparation was screaming. The Irish, according to Nathan Hines, the former Leisnter, "are protected by their federation and built for this competition," have largely based their executives since the end of the world and did showed that for large maturities. Clermont, engaged in a relentless Top 14, did not have that luxury. The gap in the second half was very clear.

Grimb: Having a final 100% Irish shows there that the system of provinces is the best solution to scale well in the Heineken Cup?

Leo FAURE: Not necessarily. Why in this case the Welsh did not come out? It is the success of the Irish federal system, it is a certainty. More generally, the failure to find any English and French in one semifinal, this is evidence of differences between domestic championships. Therein lies the difficulty in achieving the double in France. The Celtic League has only secondary importance for these teams. If Clermont and Toulouse could focus 100% on the Heineken Cup by leaving the league, surely they would compete. But that means nine games at the top (maximum) each season. This would satisfy those who love it in the Top 14 and rugby in general? You can not have everything ...

Emeline: Beyond morale, a gathering such as Sunday's physical sequelae. Do you think Clermont can afford to play "quietly" until the end of the championship half?

Leo FAURE: That although the difficulty of doubled! Clermont, after the game, players were actually "chewed". Mathematically, however, they are already assured of playing the semifinals of the Top 14. So they might well turn on the last two games (which has not always been synonymous with diminished team this season in Clermont). Finally, between the end of the regular phase of the Top 14 and the semifinals, the Clermont will also have three weeks without a match. They should arrive refreshed for the semifinals.

Clement: What is your prognosis for the Ulster-Leinster final?

Leo FAURE: Ulster is a very strong team physically, brave and new on the European scene (or renewal). It actually looks like a lot to Clermont, with whom she had neutralized the group stages (one win each). On paper, the delay on the Leinster will however be difficult to fill. Logic suggests that the Leinster wins without too much difficulty. But sport sometimes as surprising ...

fred73: What would the Leinster Championship in France or the English league?

Leo FAURE: Already, they would have to play the competition thoroughly, if they want to play every year the Heineken Cup. Then, Leinster is a superb machine, steeped in talent and well-oiled collectively. Presumably it would compete with the top teams, Toulouse and Clermont. But with the proliferation of games, not sure that their supremacy would be such. Rugby is a sport physically wearing.

rodier Adrian: What's missing there still in Clermont to win this kind of meeting?

Leo FAURE: To come back! And learn to transform their huge enthusiasm in Lethal Weapon. But they have everything to get there ...

Switch33: What do you think of the French proposal to spend 24 to 20 clubs in the Heineken Cup?

Leo FAURE: It would strengthen the competition, which can not be a bad thing. There is also talk of strengthening competition in time, with group stage finished in December and a final in April. These are just reflections, but these guidelines have the merit of allowing the French and English teams to have distinct periods for Europe, and to keep the influx for the championship. To be continued ...

bbbggg: The MAATS is it capable of being European champions next year?

Leo FAURE: Potentially, it's been several years that MAATS postulated to high European level. The first semi-final brings them into the group of contenders under final. The Auvergne could also have the ability to switch seeded next year, so benefit from a chicken more affordable. They come in over the very large. After, to win the supreme title, you need a combination of circumstances ...

Dalyth: At present, a double Heineken Cup - Top14 is it feasible?

Leo FAURE: Well, many dream of ... Sunday's game, however, came to remind everyone how this task, on which the people of Toulouse break their teeth, is difficult. Feasible, yes. But damn tough ....

Didier: The stunning quarter-final of their ASM has he been fatal?

Leo FAURE: This match was a month ago already! The physical wear is real but more comprehensive, especially in this year's World Cup.

Bérurier: Does the presence of Vosloo would not allow it to better compete in Clermont at the ruck?

Leo FAURE: It is a certainty, Gerhard Vosloo would have been valuable, in a profile quite similar to Sean O'Brien. Very low, his defensive work and his ability to move quickly to picking the ball would have been more. We return again to the question of physical wear. Leinster XV posted its kind. He missed three potential licensees to Clermont (Domingo, thomas and Vosloo). Not to mention Malzieu and Byrne injured early in the match. The turning point of the match, it is perhaps off the field ...

[ronk]

Good interview, very candid.

[Hippo]

Shaggy made some interesting observations on OTB the other night re the Clermont backs and their fairly average handling skills, which seem to have gone into something of a decline since Joe left. As they couldn't use their usual kicking game the backs were even more exposed. I was particularly unimpressed with Rougerie, he tried to force things and was part of a midfield that looked very much second best.

[slum]

Shaggy made some interesting observations on OTB the other night re the Clermont backs and their fairly average handling skills, which seem to have gone into something of a decline since Joe left. As they couldn't use their usual kicking game the backs were even more exposed. I was particularly unimpressed with Rougerie, he tried to force things and was part of a midfield that looked very much second best.

Another point he made was that neither team looked anywhere near their best. For drama and intensity, it was a great game; but realistically neither team got out of 3rd gear.

1 thing that amazes me looking back at it - why did we not just keep the score board ticking over in the 2nd half. We had plenty of drop goal opportunities and a good wind behind us... If Fofana had grounded that ball we would have lost because of our game management. cup rugby and all that...

[Edna Kenny]

We had plenty of drop goal opportunities

I was watching the game again last night and was just thinking that. We were well in control on about 70-73 minutes and were setting up rucks in front of the posts. Sexton probably should have had a go at a drop goal at that stage. We ended up with the Reddan attempt which was daft. Having watched it again Cudmore really should have been carded for taking out Boss. It got no replay so no one really talked about it. Cullen was lucky by the letter of the law but it if he had been binned it should have been evened out with Cudmore going off too.

[TrapperChamonix]

Shaggy made some interesting observations on OTB the other night re the Clermont backs and their fairly average handling skills, which seem to have gone into something of a decline since Joe left. As they couldn't use their usual kicking game the backs were even more exposed. I was particularly unimpressed with Rougerie, he tried to force things and was part of a midfield that looked very much second best.

The comment my friend made to me after the game was " The day Schmidt told the Leinster team he'd make theme the best passing team in Europe, Cotter must of being telling ASM he'd make them the worst". Agree that Rougerie is top of the list but there were lots of them, Parra and Buttin spring to mind. Lots of great off loading skills but basic passing not great

[berniemac67]

Shaggy made some interesting observations on OTB the other night re the Clermont backs and their fairly average handling skills, which seem to have gone into something of a decline since Joe left. As they couldn't use their usual kicking game the backs were even more exposed. I was particularly unimpressed with Rougerie, he tried to force things and was part of a midfield that looked very much second best.

Another point he made was that neither team looked anywhere near their best. For drama and intensity, it was a great game; but realistically neither team got out of 3rd gear.

1 thing that amazes me looking back at it - why did we not just keep the score board ticking over in the 2nd half. We had plenty of drop goal opportunities and a good wind behind us... If Fofana had grounded that ball we would have lost because of our game management. cup rugby and all that...

watched it again last night and agree with all these points.

asm backs looked average
parra was poor, brock more or less anonymous and rougerie committed but limited
sivivatu by miles the most influential, and he had to collect from restarts or move in to the breakdown to have any impact

asm pack was a differnt story, very impressive stuff for the most part
watch cudmore on boss closely again and you see his positional play was actually reasonably good
he was just caught out because boss was the decoy to open the inside space
nice move very well executed

other than that leinster didn't play particularly well with ball in hand
it reminded me in ways of the away match in bath (but a LOT more physical and we didn't butcher so many clear cut chances)
we should have won by more
hopefuly joe is giving them a right bollicking this week

EDIT: comments on leinster back play shouldn't be read as criticism of robk or our counterattacking. just the passing didn't look sharp very often. lots of passes needed the man to check or to reach back. killed our attacking pace a few times and gave asm a little more time. the bar has been set high this season

[TrapperChamonix]

BM, you forgot to add top 3 things on Joes list will be
Restarts
Restarts
Restarts

Boy do we miss Shaggy

[berniemac67]

BM, you forgot to add top 3 things on Joes list will be
Restarts
Restarts
Restarts

Boy do we miss Shaggy

asm were ready for luke charging every time
hard to see how he could compete effectively with hines in the aerial battle

[Hippo]

BM, you forgot to add top 3 things on Joes list will be
Restarts
Restarts
Restarts

Boy do we miss Shaggy

Agree with that, and the lineout. The scrum will probably at best be about even with the gringos, so the lineout will need to function an awful lot better. I can see Dev on at some stage.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I wonder why we didn't do our usual trick of changing the restart and going right? Initally I thought it was so that we wouldn't kick to Malzieu but then he went off and besides, he has feet for hands when put under real pressure.

[berniemac67]

I wonder why we didn't do our usual trick of changing the restart and going right? Initally I thought it was so that we wouldn't kick to Malzieu but then he went off and besides, he has feet for hands when put under real pressure.

good question, and i couldn't figure that out either
maybe we wanted to bring the fight to the asm pack, but then why kick deep and have luke chase in isolation?
maybe fear of quick ball to the asm backs? we were quite happy to let them attack the fringes all day, so maybe this is the reason?

have to ask joe next time i see him