Clermont - The Game

[Scott]

I see they beat Stade 25-9 yesterday with James on form kicking 2o. Anyone see the game? I expected Stade to put up a flight seeing as it was a must win for them. The Clermont run continues. 41.

[desperado]

+ 1. Sarries lost 12 pts directly from scrum failure.

[desperado]

I didnt say we were invincible. I said we had the air of invincibility. Like great teams have. They hope to hest us but do they believe they can.

I'd steady on with the Toulouse comparsion, and using terms like air of invincibility. Toulouse 6 HEC finals, won 4 and in the same periold won their domestic league 7 times. We have a long way to go to match that. We need to keep our feet firmly on the ground, and talk of greatness is premature IMO.

[artaneboy]

There's no reason to be confident. I really think Clermont are the favourites. Record counts for nothing, hunger for everything. They're going to come at us harder than they've ever come at anyone before. This going to one of the hardest matches against one of the best teams we've ever faced.

Of course there are reasons to be confident. We are a great side and we know how to win- haveing done it twice in three years. There is absolutely no evidence that Clermont are better than us. No matter how hard they come at us- do you imagine that we cannot meet that force and equal it? Did we not meet it in Clermont last year- while down some of our best?

But I do agree that it will be one of the toughest matches we have ever played. But imagine the glory if we win!

[Ruckedtobits]

The key to this game could be the referee selected. The Clermont scrum can look awesome .... but it can also creak cf. Top 14 against Biarritz two weeks ago when Biarritz, with a South African loose head and a young French tight head, Watremez, did a number on the first choice Clermont front-row and ultimately beat them 14-13.

A referee who does not decide to ignore the scrum, but ensures that the contest is legitimate (not like the Munster game) will suit us. Healy or V DeM with Ross and Strauss / Cronin backed by Thorn / Cullen / Toner will be able to take care of our own ball without crumbling - no dominance, but good quality survival.

On the other hand their line-out is more vulnerable due to throwing woes. Neither Ti Paulo or their ex-Leicester No 2, Kayser have the best darts in the world.

Possibly the most positive feature of all however is that Leinster supporters and the team fully realise that this is a major challenge! The big fear would be going to face a team that we were not "up" for. There is no chance of that against Clermont

[AdamK]

I see they beat Stade 25-9 yesterday with James on form kicking 2o. Anyone see the game? I expected Stade to put up a flight seeing as it was a must win for them. The Clermont run continues. 41.

I saw it. 2nd string Clermont pack bullied Stade around the park.

[sid]

Did we not meet it in Clermont last year

No, we didn't. We lost. It doesn't matter how close we came or how many players we were missing, the fact is we still failed to win the game and if that happens this time we're out of the HEC. Clermont will also be better than they were last year so there's absolutely no room for complacency.

Having said that, I think we can win, but we'll need to be on top of our game.

[Morf]

Clermont will also be better than they were last year so there's absolutely no room for complacency.

Having said that, I think we can win, but we'll need to be on top of our game.

Can i introduce you to one Bradley Thorn?

Leinster are also better than last year.

I'm not advocating complacency and I will be bricking it coming up to the game but I fully believe that we are capable of beating them.

Toulouse are leading them (by win/points difference) and we've seen they are a team in decline compared to their usual standard. Lets not build Clermont up too much either.

[artaneboy]

Did we not meet it in Clermont last year

No, we didn't. We lost. It doesn't matter how close we came or how many players we were missing, the fact is we still failed to win the game and if that happens this time we're out of the HEC. Clermont will also be better than they were last year so there's absolutely no room for complacency.

Having said that, I think we can win, but we'll need to be on top of our game.

Who's complacent? I just think we can- and more importantly- should be confident. It matters to the team! I think we did meet Clermont’s fire with equal spirit last year and probably should have won- if Jenno’s perfectly good try had been allowed. It does matter that we were short-handed and gave that performance too. I’m not sure what is served by being nervous or ‘poor-mouthed’ in respect of our capacity and therefore chances.

Unfortunately I won’t be in Bordeaux;- a wedding the previous day and the resulting poverty is seeing to that. Will be in london for the final whether we get there or not- hope that's not complacent? But apropos, to what effect a confident- not complacent or arrogant group of supporters can have on a team; at the Leicester quarter-final last year, the tiger fan’s were always in good voice- but just rose seeming spontaneously as their team left the field after the warm-up to return to dressing room. It was a great experience and it gave me both an appreciation of what we were in for- and I’m sure gave the team a great fillip before emerging to take us on. And take us on they did! Great game and great fans- they went confident of their team’s abilities- but were magnanimous in defeat both on the day later on and when we met some of them at the final in Cardiff.

[Edna Kenny]

I liked Jamie Heaslip's attitude on Friday night when he got his t-shirt. He said Clermont was the most difficult away team to play but he also said something along the lines that he knows that when Leinster play to full potential that they are confident that they can beat anyone. All they will be thinking about is getting a 100% performance, their reputation etc is of no concern. Leinster's own self criticism after the last couple of games shows they aren't happy with the standard they are playing at yet, they believe they can do better and they will need to. They have the right attitude, confident but not cocky.

The other factor in this game for me is O'Driscoll. I just think this game is made for him.

[Blue Man]

Most objective observers agree that the semi final pits the two best teams in Europe against each other.
It's in France but fortunately for us it's in Bordeaux which is 400km away from Clermont. Also, it shields us and the ref from the bear pit that is Marcel Michelin.

I agree with the general consensus that the scrum will be key but I am confident that we can achieve parity. Lineout should be interesting, they have Bonnaire at the back and our old pal Hines but I'd like to see us get guys up in the air and challenge. I suspect JS will go with the same back row that played Cardiff and Locky will jump against Bonnaire. I reckon out back row is better than theirs but consistency and intensity will be key.
I also think we have better half backs regardless of who they go with at 10 (I'd be surprised if they don't start Skrela). Their midfield is impressive but, certainly going by the 6 Nations, Rougerie isn't in top form. Fofana is a class player with ball in hand but I'd like to see SOB and Darc put the head down and run at him. They have no shortage of gas out wide with muscle to back it up but Isa and Luke aren't bad either. RK and Byrne are probably the two best 15s in NH and both have a booming left boot so the ariel battle should be fascinating.

There is little or nothing between the two sides. The side that takes its chances, kicks points and is mentally stronger on the day will win.

I can't wait!

[artaneboy]

It's beyond obvious that Parra is a very important link for Clermont. It is equally evident that if we can get to him (not easy) and disrupt his service to either Skrela or James- that we will be on the front foot. There famed mid-field will be stopped behind the gain line and all that good stuff. More so than most, nearly all their speed in the line is predicated on Parra getting the ball away quickly, while fear of his break or box-kick holds the opposition defence. So I think we need to thinks a little on the SH and backrow to do that. While having McLaughlin oin for his heft and as a lineout option is a strength- Jennings would bring more to the necessary task of limiting Parra, as would Boss for Redden. Joe will have thought of all this already, but worth pondering....

[slarty]

It's beyond obvious that Parra is a very important link for Clermont. It is equally evident that if we can get to him (not easy) and disrupt his service to either Skrela or James- that we will be on the front foot. There famed mid-field will be stopped behind the gain line and all that good stuff. More so than most, nearly all their speed in the line is predicated on Parra getting the ball away quickly, while fear of his break or box-kick holds the opposition defence. So I think we need to thinks a little on the SH and backrow to do that. While having McLaughlin oin for his heft and as a lineout option is a strength- Jennings would bring more to the necessary task of limiting Parra, as would Boss for Redden. Joe will have thought of all this already, but worth pondering....

Much in the same way as Ireland stifled France in he 6N.

Yes, this will be our toughest game in years, but it's conceivable that they will fear us more than we fear them.

Also, was the 2nd half against Cardiff about not revealing too much for opposition analysts to work on, I wonder?
Do Joe & Co have moves up their sleeves specifically to address perceived Clermont weaknesses?

[papachino]

Wake up and smell the coffee Lads, in no way are Leinster "unbeatable" or "Invisible". I think these guys are going on 45 games unbeaten at home, and lets not forget, they have played and won at Bordeaux before.

Clermont go into this game with a chip on their shoulder and with Hines there to tell them everything about us. Leinster go in 'over confident' and with two or three simple wins under their belts.

I think the teams would look something like this:
-Leinster........Clermont-
McFadden..23.King
Madigan....22.Williams
Boss.........21.Senio
McLaughlin.20.Vosloo
Toner.......19.Cudmore
White.......18.Ric
V.D Merwe..17.Domingo/Faure
Cronin.......16.Paulo
Kearney....15.Byrne
Nacewa....14.Sivivatu
O'Driscoll..13.Rougerie
D'Arcy......12.Fofana
Fitzgerald..11.Malzieu
Sexton.....10.James
Reddan.....09.Parra
Heaslip...08.Vermeulen
Jennings.07.Lapandry
O'Brien...06.Bonnaire
Thorn....05.Pierre
Cullen....04.Hines
Ross......03.Zirkashvili
Strauss...02.Kayser
Healy.....01.Debaty

[Sauvignon Blank]

Wake up and smell the coffee Lads, in no way are Leinster "unbeatable" or "Invisible". I think these guys are going on 45 games unbeaten at home, and lets not forget, they have played and won at Bordeaux before.
Clermont go into this game with a chip on their shoulder and with Hines there to tell them everything about us. Leinster go in 'over confident' and with two or three simple wins under their belts.

They are not playing at home in Clermont.

They can carry a chip if they like but they are in a semi-final and will be nervous about the occasion and the opposition.

Cotters musings about us being unbeatable shows he is very concerned/worried. Remember his 'disrespect' remarks the last time round.

They are in fact quite brittle historically when it comes to the business end of the HC and it will take a huge effort to overcome them. I hope we test them and ask the relevant questions of them. I make them slight favourites as its being played in France.

If our scrums remains intact, Johnny keeps the scoreboard ticking over and we get a bit of luck then we may well win. They'll try to bully and bash us up early on and you seem to forget Joe has as much of their inside track as Hines on us.

I hope our boys are uber confident going into this and as such perform to their maximum.

As i see it the pressure is on them to perform at home in France just like it was on us last season.

[cwebber82]

I remember watching Stade Francais v Clermont this season in Paris. Stade absolutely battered them all over the park and dominated them in thye scrum. Beat them 37 - 16.

I hope to see Debaty named at loosehead. He's an average scrummager and I think we can target him if he starts. They have a decent scrum but by no means is it one to be feared.

Having said all that I would make Clermont marginal favourites purely because they are playing in France and they seem to be genuinely targeting the HC this season. Their selection against Perpignan this friday will be interesting.

Anyone know how often they have played games in Bordeaux and what their record is there?

[wixfjord]

Is Domingo injured or available?
They've a monster pack right, but hear me out.
If we started with VDM, Strauss, Locky, Boss, match them for intensity for 60, and then attempt to get the offloading/tempo game going and bring on Reddan, Healy, Jenno and Cronin, anyone else think that we could get some joy from this?

[glenageary]

I remember watching Stade Francais v Clermont this season in Paris. Stade absolutely battered them all over the park and dominated them in thye scrum. Beat them 37 - 16.

I hope to see Debaty named at loosehead. He's an average scrummager and I think we can target him if he starts. They have a decent scrum but by no means is it one to be feared.

Having said all that I would make Clermont marginal favourites purely because they are playing in France and they seem to be genuinely targeting the HC this season. Their selection against Perpignan this friday will be interesting.

Anyone know how often they have played games in Bordeaux and what their record is there?

Two wins out of two in Bordeaux! They beat Toulouse there a few years ago and then Bordeaux recently. Basically it's a new ground to them as well. It will be a close one which ever way you look at it.

[Ruckedtobits]

Papachino has got it just about right...if those teams start. Their scrum is their right of passage, and Parra is their leader. A fortnight ago, Yashvilli did everything right to get up the nose of Parra and eventually after 60 mins, he retired injured.

IMO the front row that started against Sarries will start against Leinster. They will try to play with more power everywhere than us, but we will try to play with more pace than they can muster across their team. Quick ball, as always, and good quality retention, is the key to a pacy game. Does Joe try to deprive them of ball with which to pound us, or does he believe that our defence and set-piece standard against Cardiff (first-half) will be sufficient to get enough ball to keep pace in the game?

We can't do both. Depriving them of possession might require Locky on the flank and Dev in the line-out, possibly accompanied by Isaac B, Strauss and H vdeM. On the other hand a pacy game might be better served by Jenno, Reds, Leo & Brad, Cian and Cronin. What tough calls - both for Joe and the players.

Either way, I'm with Jamie. If we play to our potential, we can win. If we play with our reputation, it won't be enough!

[artaneboy]

Is Domingo injured or available?
They've a monster pack right, but hear me out.
If we started with VDM, Strauss, Locky, Boss, match them for intensity for 60, and then attempt to get the offloading/tempo game going and bring on Reddan, Healy, Jenno and Cronin, anyone else think that we could get some joy from this?

That's a valid strategy- if it will work! But it might not- and the alternative is to go for a high-paced game from the off. Try and poach an early try and hold on until they run out of steam in the last quarter.

I do imagine that VDM will start instead of Cian- either Strauss or Cronin are physical enough not to warrant too much heart-ache. the one I am increasing thinking of is in the choice between Locky and Jennings and Reddan/Boss. I have a feeling that Jennings and Boss could do a containing job on Parra. so right now I favour them- but ask me tomorrow and I'll have changed my mind!