A whiff of Cordite

[ronk]

Burns might be out of favour for Ireland but he's a lock in for Ulster. He plays a lot of rugby for them and they use their 10 differently. He doesn't have to kick.

I don't think they'd be that interested in seeing if Crowley can improve them as a starter. Madigan is finished, he barely plays. He'll be cut in the summer.

The point of Crowley is that he might be the best bet as a bolter for the Ireland job after Sexton so there's zero point in moving him to probably bench.

There's a load of suitors for that job though. Highly experienced capped options in place in all the provinces.

Leinster have 3 players it could be, Munster have 3. Realistically there's only 1 at Ulster and Connacht. There's always a break glass option in England if the situation was dire enough.

Crowley won't get there by moving to Ulster and somehow passing Burns. If he does it he'll get there by staying at Munster and passing Carbery (or waiting for Carbery to get hurt first).

In that sense the situation is the same: Carbery never needed to move.

Crowley isn't perfect and he doesn't look ready to fix the Munster backline on his own, but he probably has a better chance of doing that than Carbery, who has shown for 4 years that he can't.

This cup final nonsense is unhelpful for Munster. They're under pressure but they lost last weekend and didn't get knocked out. They should be pacing themselves and developing. Losing a season of development with new coaches would be a bigger long term hit than missing a year of Heineken Cup rugby.

[munster#1]

It’s literally the identical scenario to Carbery.

He’s not ahead of Carbery. Ulster’s second choice scrum half is ahead of virtually all the 10s at Ulster. Ulster would play him as a 10.

So you think that even though Crowley is not good enough to be a first choice 10 (in your opinion), that Ulster would/should make him first choice ahead of Billy and Madigan?

He’s not first choice 10… for Munster, because they have a 10, yes. They have three of them.

He would be moving to a club that have zero decent 10s.

Ulster are a different club with different players FYI.

Well that’s different to what you have already said.
You said that you don’t think he’s ready to be first choice.
So now your saying that he is ready but just not at Munster?

I’m not sure you’ve watched much of Ulster as they have 10s and Billy, whilst not international level, is a decent 10.

Again, I’m all for players moving for the greater good, but you seem to be arguing on 2 fronts.

[Serb]

The point is that Carbery is the incumbent, entering his prime, is still favoured by the management and the first choice.

Crowley needs time at 10 to build his skill set, but he’s not going to get enough of it for the reasons above. But he’s clearly a good player, so Munster are working him into the team at other positions to get him minutes.

Ireland are likely losing their first choice 10 this September. We have Carbery, but we don’t really have anyone else.

I’d argue you’re not the one watching Ulster, I think I’ve seen every game of theirs this season, especially last week against Connacht where they played a 9 at out half. Where are all these 10s that they have? They have a Billy Burns who has to play the full 80 in virtually every game for them because there’s no one else. Flannery has 1 start and got 30 seconds off the bench against Connacht.

They need another quality operator at 10 and Crowley is their man. He’s instantly second choice and he wouldn’t take long to overtake Burns.

[munster#1]

The point is that Carbery is the incumbent, entering his prime, is still favoured by the management and the first choice.

Crowley needs time at 10 to build his skill set, but he’s not going to get enough of it for the reasons above. But he’s clearly a good player, so Munster are working him into the team at other positions to get him minutes.

Ireland are likely losing their first choice 10 this September. We have Carbery, but we don’t really have anyone else.

I’d argue you’re not the one watching Ulster, I think I’ve seen every game of theirs this season, especially last week against Connacht where they played a 9 at out half. Where are all these 10s that they have? They have a Billy Burns who has to play the full 80 in virtually every game for them because there’s no one else. Flannery has 1 start and got 30 seconds off the bench against Connacht.

They need another quality operator at 10 and Crowley is their man. He’s instantly second choice and he wouldn’t take long to overtake Burns.

So he should leave his home province as second choice to go to another club as second choice?
Would you also apply this across every position or just at outhalf?

[Ray Donovan]

Serb makes an excellent point.

2008 (or whatever his name is) doesn’t.

[Serb]

The point is that Carbery is the incumbent, entering his prime, is still favoured by the management and the first choice.

Crowley needs time at 10 to build his skill set, but he’s not going to get enough of it for the reasons above. But he’s clearly a good player, so Munster are working him into the team at other positions to get him minutes.

Ireland are likely losing their first choice 10 this September. We have Carbery, but we don’t really have anyone else.

I’d argue you’re not the one watching Ulster, I think I’ve seen every game of theirs this season, especially last week against Connacht where they played a 9 at out half. Where are all these 10s that they have? They have a Billy Burns who has to play the full 80 in virtually every game for them because there’s no one else. Flannery has 1 start and got 30 seconds off the bench against Connacht.

They need another quality operator at 10 and Crowley is their man. He’s instantly second choice and he wouldn’t take long to overtake Burns.

So he should leave his home province as second choice to go to another club as second choice?
Would you also apply this across every position or just at outhalf?

10 if the most pivotal position for Ireland and we’re losing one off the top of the depth chart. He’s the highest potential outhalf outside of Carbery.

Precisely because of Carbery, we know that the top two can’t be at the same province when the IRFU shopped him around to Ulster and Munster (in contract mind you).

He should go to Ulster.

[ronk]

The point is that Carbery is the incumbent, entering his prime, is still favoured by the management and the first choice.

Crowley needs time at 10 to build his skill set, but he’s not going to get enough of it for the reasons above. But he’s clearly a good player, so Munster are working him into the team at other positions to get him minutes.

Ireland are likely losing their first choice 10 this September. We have Carbery, but we don’t really have anyone else.

I’d argue you’re not the one watching Ulster, I think I’ve seen every game of theirs this season, especially last week against Connacht where they played a 9 at out half. Where are all these 10s that they have? They have a Billy Burns who has to play the full 80 in virtually every game for them because there’s no one else. Flannery has 1 start and got 30 seconds off the bench against Connacht.

They need another quality operator at 10 and Crowley is their man. He’s instantly second choice and he wouldn’t take long to overtake Burns.

The point is that a sideways move to boost your international prospects is not a winning strategy.

Crowley needs to get ahead of Carbery to put himself in pole position for Ireland. He has opportunities where he is and is threatening to do it.

If he moves to Ulster he has to get ahead of Billy Burns and then get ahead of Carbery.

Ulster need another outhalf and I'm sure Crowley could fit the bill,but it's not a move that suits Crowley right now.

Anyway Crowley's 2nd start of the season at outhalf is also against Ulster, so they go head to head.

[Ruckedtobits]

Ross Byrne is the perfect illustration that there's plenty of opportunity in each Province for showcasing your out-half skills, if you're good enough, even if you're headed at present by a strong incumbent. Carbery doesn't fit that description currently so Crowley should bide his time, perfect his skills and accept every selection that comes his way in a red jersey, be it numbered 10, 12 or 15.

Packing your bag, to change your horse, rarely results in ultimate sporting success in Ireland. The island's too small and rumour precedes reality.

[munster#1]

If Carberry and Crowley were the clear Ireland 1,2 at 10 I would definitely see merit in moving one to a team where they would be first choice.
That is a smart move, and one that I think we will see more of in the future given the shallow playing pool we have available.

However, neither of these are first choice for Ireland, some would argue that neither would even be second choice.
Where is Crowley currently?
Where does he fit if Ross, Harry and Frawley are all fit?

As already said by others and by Serb himself, Crowley is not guaranteed first choice if he moves, so why move now?
Right now he is training with 2 international 9s week in week out, one of who is one of the most experienced in the game, and is learning from Carberry who has bucket loads of experience to pass on.
If things change post World Cup, maybe it should be reviewed then.

[riocard911]

If Carberry and Crowley were the clear Ireland 1,2 at 10 I would definitely see merit in moving one to a team where they would be first choice.
That is a smart move, and one that I think we will see more of in the future given the shallow playing pool we have available.

However, neither of these are first choice for Ireland, some would argue that neither would even be second choice.
Where is Crowley currently?
Where does he fit if Ross, Harry and Frawley are all fit?

As already said by others and by Serb himself, Crowley is not guaranteed first choice if he moves, so why move now?
Right now he is training with 2 international 9s week in week out, one of who is one of the most experienced in the game, and is learning from Carberry who has bucket loads of experience to pass on.
If things change post World Cup, maybe it should be reviewed then.

+1

[blockhead]

Anyone know the background of Phil@RugbyPhilBB ??
He's prolific on twitter and with one theme, he hates rugby, he hates Welsh rugby and especially URC rugby.
Whats his beef?

[FLIP]

Anyone know the background of Phil@RugbyPhilBB ??
He's prolific on twitter and with one theme, he hates rugby, he hates Welsh rugby and especially URC rugby.
Whats his beef?

From personal experience, a nasty xenophobic pond scum of a man. Close connections with Peter Thomas (of pie making fame and Life President of Cardiff Rugby) and has been given great leeway by his mates on the various forums he's occupied over the years meaning that anyone that's called him out often ends up being pushed out. Wouldn't be worth wasting your breath on if it wasn't for the fact that he has a high level of access to Cardiff and Welsh rugby media.

[paddyor]

Anyone know the background of Phil@RugbyPhilBB ??
He's prolific on twitter and with one theme, he hates rugby, he hates Welsh rugby and especially URC rugby.
Whats his beef?

Welsh mentalist and Cardiff fan. Big proponent of an Anglo Welsh league. Very quick to criticise anything Irish rugby related, and not without cause often enough but generally very conspiratorially minded. Extememly online. Best avoided. He seems to have left Gwlad. Blocked me on twitter many moons ago for popinting out he was wrong about something. Has unblocked me only to do it again.

[johng]

He's poison. All my Welsh mates hate him. (Ok that's a small sample)

[suisse]

https://supersport.com/rugby/united-rug ... -challenge

Opinion: South Africa to Europe is very far. Who knew?

[naraic]

https://supersport.com/rugby/united-rug ... -challenge

Opinion: South Africa to Europe is very far. Who knew?

Who is making the decisions about flights and travel.

40 hour flight time including a domestic flight in south africa, a flight to doha, a third flight to London and one from London to Glasgow.

All in economy class.

Cape Town to Heathrow direct is a 12 hour flight.

The Sharks squad in Connacht left Sunday morning and arrived Monday night.

Is the URC making the decision about how flights work or is it Qatar airlines in their role as travel partner or is it the individual clubs.

[Keith]

https://supersport.com/rugby/united-rug ... -challenge

Opinion: South Africa to Europe is very far. Who knew?

South African teams playing in the HC isn't going to work as far as I can see, unless they completely change the format (again).

[Twist]

https://supersport.com/rugby/united-rug ... -challenge

Opinion: South Africa to Europe is very far. Who knew?

The reference points in that article are a bit odd. He references Heathrow and the white cliffs of Dover. I’d have referred to one of the countries they actually go to for their URC matches

[naraic]

https://supersport.com/rugby/united-rug ... -challenge

Opinion: South Africa to Europe is very far. Who knew?

The reference points in that article are a bit odd. He references Heathrow and the white cliffs of Dover. I’d have referred to one of the countries they actually go to for their URC matches

Heathrow is fine as a reference point. I believe its the only airport in the UK or Ireland with a direct flight from South Africa.

I think the big problem is SARU appointing Qatar airways as the official travel partner of the South African Rugby Union the URC and the EPCR.

The South African teams now have to fly Qatar rather than picking the best airline for the journey and Qatar aren't holding up their end of the bargain.

The flights are there. The south africans are choosing not to fly them and then moaning about the travel.

[Dexter]

https://supersport.com/rugby/united-rug ... -challenge

Opinion: South Africa to Europe is very far. Who knew?

The reference points in that article are a bit odd. He references Heathrow and the white cliffs of Dover. I’d have referred to one of the countries they actually go to for their URC matches

Heathrow is fine as a reference point. I believe its the only airport in the UK or Ireland with a direct flight from South Africa.

I think the big problem is SARU appointing Qatar airways as the official travel partner of the South African Rugby Union the URC and the EPCR.

The South African teams now have to fly Qatar rather than picking the best airline for the journey and Qatar aren't holding up their end of the bargain.

The flights are there. The south africans are choosing not to fly them and then moaning about the travel.

Hearing the South Africans moaning is probably as good as hearing the Welsh booing.