A whiff of Cordite

[Dave Cahill]

If anything the praise to Munster is a bit patronising to them. It be like congratualting Wales on how entertaining their last Six Nations game against Italy was.
They shouldn't have been happy to be in touch. They should have been in control. And never looked like laying a glove in the final half-hour. Most of the excitement came from Larmour returning the ball from deep, or Adam Byrne making inroads. Strong co-ordinated defensive line is what Munster would aim to achieve rather than making things exciting by letting them waltz through.
Stats on their dominance in possession and territory may impress some, but shows just how ponderous they were with the ball compared to Leinster.
Also, for the talk of their enterprising play, putting width on it. Most of their better opportunities either came off Leinster unusual mis-handling in possession or contested up and unders.

I think its possible for both things to be true. Certainly their three tries came from Leinster errors - a knock on in possession for their first, Baird and Ed Byrne working so hard to be pillars that they forgot about the gate for the second and a careless slap at the ball from Osbourne for the third. And Munster did work hard to keep width on the pitch and stretch the Leinster defensive line. What they didn't do however was stress that line. No one was making the kind of run Frawley was making for the Foley try. Farrell for example has been criticised for going lateral all the time - but he was successful in his role in as much as he was engaging the Leinster defense, what he needed that never came was someone to cut an angle off him. So he just ended up running east west because there was no one going north south

[RoboProp]

Daire O'Brien doesn't wait a minute to negatively say that Leinster's second team are the 2nd best team in Ireland just because they beat Munster, completely ignoring that Ulster have beaten Leinster twice this season.

This is what irks me with the media coverage of Ulster they are oft forgotten about down here; and if I was an Ulster fan (which I am when they're not playing us, Nordie mother and all that) I would be a tad miffed.

[Dave Cahill]

Daire O'Brien doesn't wait a minute to negatively say that Leinster's second team are the 2nd best team in Ireland just because they beat Munster, completely ignoring that Ulster have beaten Leinster twice this season.

This is what irks me with the media coverage of Ulster they are oft forgotten about down here; and if I was an Ulster fan (which I am when they're not playing us, Nordie mother and all that) I would be a tad miffed.

As someone with a nordie mother, father, grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins and who spent a year in a nordie school I'm more miffed about how the forgetting of Ulster is oft apt. I'm not sure McFarland is up to it.

[RoboProp]

Are there actually people who think Ulster will beat Munster? Have they never seen an Ulster team in a big game? This is a team that makes Leinster 2002 - 2007 look like early 70s Leeds in terms of mental fortitude

I know Ulster have a propensity to fold faster than Superman on laundry day, but there is still hope they'll do a number on them.
I will presume Leeds in the 70s were muck, knowing nothing about football, and also I'm not that old

[the spoofer]

If anything the praise to Munster is a bit patronising to them. It be like congratualting Wales on how entertaining their last Six Nations game against Italy was.
They shouldn't have been happy to be in touch. They should have been in control. And never looked like laying a glove in the final half-hour. Most of the excitement came from Larmour returning the ball from deep, or Adam Byrne making inroads. Strong co-ordinated defensive line is what Munster would aim to achieve rather than making things exciting by letting them waltz through.
Stats on their dominance in possession and territory may impress some, but shows just how ponderous they were with the ball compared to Leinster.
Also, for the talk of their enterprising play, putting width on it. Most of their better opportunities either came off Leinster unusual mis-handling in possession or contested up and unders.

I think its possible for both things to be true. Certainly their three tries came from Leinster errors - a knock on in possession for their first, Baird and Ed Byrne working so hard to be pillars that they forgot about the gate for the second and a careless slap at the ball from Osbourne for the third. And Munster did work hard to keep width on the pitch and stretch the Leinster defensive line. What they didn't do however was stress that line. No one was making the kind of run Frawley was making for the Foley try. Farrell for example has been criticised for going lateral all the time - but he was successful in his role in as much as he was engaging the Leinster defense, what he needed that never came was someone to cut an angle off him. So he just ended up running east west because there was no one going north south

I watched the game back and there was one instance where Carbery got the ball in loads of space. He had two men outside him v's two defenders. He crabbed across the pitch so badly that he ended up in a position where he had no option but to run himself and the excellent ROL nabbed him quite easily. It was awful play.

[the spoofer]

Are there actually people who think Ulster will beat Munster? Have they never seen an Ulster team in a big game? This is a team that makes Leinster 2002 - 2007 look like early 70s Leeds in terms of mental fortitude

I know Ulster have a propensity to fold faster than Superman on laundry day, but there is still hope they'll do a number on them.
I will presume Leeds in the 70s were muck, knowing nothing about football, and also I'm not that old

Leeds in the 70's were Gods. Billy Bremner and Peter "hot shot" Lorrimer.

[Dave Cahill]

Are there actually people who think Ulster will beat Munster? Have they never seen an Ulster team in a big game? This is a team that makes Leinster 2002 - 2007 look like early 70s Leeds in terms of mental fortitude

I know Ulster have a propensity to fold faster than Superman on laundry day, but there is still hope they'll do a number on them.
I will presume Leeds in the 70s were muck, knowing nothing about football, and also I'm not that old

Leeds in the 70's were Gods. Billy Bremner and Peter "hot shot" Lorrimer.

They were a heck of a team who could both beat you and beat you up, but on top of that they were absolute titans mentally speaking

[riocard911]

I know Ulster have a propensity to fold faster than Superman on laundry day, but there is still hope they'll do a number on them.
I will presume Leeds in the 70s were muck, knowing nothing about football, and also I'm not that old

Leeds in the 70's were Gods. Billy Bremner and Peter "hot shot" Lorrimer.

They were a heck of a team who could both beat you and beat you up, but on top of that they were absolute titans mentally speaking

Steely resolve that's for sure. I seem to remember a famous digging match in the middle of the FA Cup Final between Leeds and Liverpool which saw Billy Bremner and Kevin Keegan both given their marching orders. Now that was funny!!!

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I watched the game back and there was one instance where Carbery got the ball in loads of space. He had two men outside him v's two defenders. He crabbed across the pitch so badly that he ended up in a position where he had no option but to run himself and the excellent ROL nabbed him quite easily. It was awful play.

He does this all the time. Even the try he got against Exeter came from running across the pitch and hesitating which basically took away his other options so he stepped his man because he had no choice. I remember there being talk that it might spark him into life but to me it just summed up how much he eats up the space and dallies on the ball.

Again I’ve defended at times but the prospect of him being heavily involved against NZ or the Maori is a pretty scary one at this stage.

[SoupyNorman]

I know Ulster have a propensity to fold faster than Superman on laundry day, but there is still hope they'll do a number on them.
I will presume Leeds in the 70s were muck, knowing nothing about football, and also I'm not that old

Leeds in the 70's were Gods. Billy Bremner and Peter "hot shot" Lorrimer.

They were a heck of a team who could both beat you and beat you up, but on top of that they were absolute titans mentally speaking

That 70s team won far less than they should have (if being strict with the decade and ignoring their 69 League success.) One League, one FA Cup and one Fairs Cup was a poor return for what they should have got.
Often fell to some big upset losses that cost them titles with silverware beckoning.
Had the epic Cup Final against Chelsea in 1970 that lost on a replay. In 1971 a loss to a West Brom team without an away win at Elland Road (with help of a controversial but correct referee call). In 1972 lost the last game to claim the title against Wolves to hand the title to Derby County when they were holidaying in Spain. Lost in one of the biggest Cup Final upsets against Second Division in 1973.
The latter two denied them doing the double, while the 1971 failure helped Arsenal secure it.

In fairness were very unfortunate in a keenly contested 1974 European Cup Final against Bayern Munich. Apparently the officiating didn't help them out much.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Leeds in the 70's were Gods. Billy Bremner and Peter "hot shot" Lorrimer.

They were a heck of a team who could both beat you and beat you up, but on top of that they were absolute titans mentally speaking

Steely resolve that's for sure. I seem to remember a famous digging match in the middle of the FA Cup Final between Leeds and Liverpool which saw Billy Bremner and Kevin Keegan both given their marching orders. Now that was funny!!!

I always though that Kevin Moran was the first (only?) player to be sent off in an FA Cup final (you can take the boy from Walkinstown..)

[SoupyNorman]

The Keegan/Bremner incident was in the Charity Shield. Clough's first notable game in charge in his short tenure.

[Dave Cahill]

It was the Charity Shield where they got their marching orders

[Long time lurker]

Leeds were brilliant in the 70's. Yes. They didn't win as many as they should have, but Arsenal in 71 were amazing. The 70 cup final was brilliant and Leeds were unlucky. The Sunderland loss was brutal. Leeds dominated and Jim Montgomery pulled saves out of his arse. The Munich match was reffed poorly. Leeds were robbed. They were a fantastic side and full of international players.

[suisse]

Ulster are soft. All talk. There's a reason they are 16 years without a medal, and it isn't like Leinster or Munster were always strong in that period. Munster seem to be spooked by the blue shirt but they're not scared of the red hand. Fancy them rolling into Belfast on a Friday night as handing the Ulster pack a beating.

[Serb]

Ulster are a weird one. In the amateur era, they dominated on levels not really seen since. Munster only managed 5 wins against them in 30 years between ‘65 and ‘95, including two 10 year unbeaten periods. Their record was 31 wins to 11 at the beginning of professionalism.

Similarly, they went 10 years unbeaten against us in the same early 80s to early 90s period, winning 9 times in a row. They had a record of 23 wins each before going professional.

Since then, they just haven’t been at the races. Irish provinces were probably generally slow to adapt, but since then, Leinster have won 41 times to Ulster’s 13. Munster have won 28 times to Ulster’s 21.

I think looking at the kind of coaching tickets both Munster and Leinster have been regularly able to put together in that time, you’d have to say that Ulster have been underinvested in that department. They have managed to both develop and import some really great players, but I’m not sure they’ve ever really had the coaches to get the most out of them.

However, looking at their squad now, it really is the best it has been in quite some time, and while McFarland seems to be divisive, the results are genuinely improving — they are regularly coming out of their Champions Cup group and performing to a much more consistent level in the league (2nd three times in a row and third this season). While they are probably behind Munster right now, I think they are on a much better trajectory to overtake them in a season or two.

I think they’ll win their quarter final, and I’d love to see a Leinster v Ulster final if that’s possible, I think they’ve had a fine season.

[TrapperChamonix]

the winner of Ulster v Munster is heading to Capetown for SF, or (if you believe in miracles) Edinburgh.
We get the winner of the Bulls v Sharks

[riocard911]

I assume this means we will be playing Munster in the URC at the Aviva that weekend?
And that it wont impact us using RDS for any playoffs or other league games..?
Hope its not our Ed Sheeran moment

Looks to me, like he's keeping his Saturday free for some Leinstertainment at the Aviva!!!

[Oldschoolsocks]

Ulster are a weird one. In the amateur era, they dominated on levels not really seen since. Munster only managed 5 wins against them in 30 years between ‘65 and ‘95, including two 10 year unbeaten periods. Their record was 31 wins to 11 at the beginning of professionalism.

Similarly, they went 10 years unbeaten against us in the same early 80s to early 90s period, winning 9 times in a row. They had a record of 23 wins each before going professional.

Since then, they just haven’t been at the races. Irish provinces were probably generally slow to adapt, but since then, Leinster have won 41 times to Ulster’s 13. Munster have won 28 times to Ulster’s 21.

I think looking at the kind of coaching tickets both Munster and Leinster have been regularly able to put together in that time, you’d have to say that Ulster have been underinvested in that department. They have managed to both develop and import some really great players, but I’m not sure they’ve ever really had the coaches to get the most out of them.

However, looking at their squad now, it really is the best it has been in quite some time, and while McFarland seems to be divisive, the results are genuinely improving — they are regularly coming out of their Champions Cup group and performing to a much more consistent level in the league (2nd three times in a row and third this season). While they are probably behind Munster right now, I think they are on a much better trajectory to overtake them in a season or two.

I think they’ll win their quarter final, and I’d love to see a Leinster v Ulster final if that’s possible, I think they’ve had a fine season.

Not disagreeing in general, just want to point out that Ulster won a European Cup in 1999 and reached the final in 2012, so whilst they’ve not dominated Irish rugby they have had some success. Also from a coaching POV that McCall lad is at least pretty good so they’ve had at least one good coach…

[neiliog93]

Ulster are a weird one. In the amateur era, they dominated on levels not really seen since. Munster only managed 5 wins against them in 30 years between ‘65 and ‘95, including two 10 year unbeaten periods. Their record was 31 wins to 11 at the beginning of professionalism.

Similarly, they went 10 years unbeaten against us in the same early 80s to early 90s period, winning 9 times in a row. They had a record of 23 wins each before going professional.

Since then, they just haven’t been at the races. Irish provinces were probably generally slow to adapt, but since then, Leinster have won 41 times to Ulster’s 13. Munster have won 28 times to Ulster’s 21.

I think looking at the kind of coaching tickets both Munster and Leinster have been regularly able to put together in that time, you’d have to say that Ulster have been underinvested in that department. They have managed to both develop and import some really great players, but I’m not sure they’ve ever really had the coaches to get the most out of them.

However, looking at their squad now, it really is the best it has been in quite some time, and while McFarland seems to be divisive, the results are genuinely improving — they are regularly coming out of their Champions Cup group and performing to a much more consistent level in the league (2nd three times in a row and third this season). While they are probably behind Munster right now, I think they are on a much better trajectory to overtake them in a season or two.

I think they’ll win their quarter final, and I’d love to see a Leinster v Ulster final if that’s possible, I think they’ve had a fine season.

Not disagreeing in general, just want to point out that Ulster won a European Cup in 1999 and reached the final in 2012, so whilst they’ve not dominated Irish rugby they have had some success. Also from a coaching POV that McCall lad is at least pretty good so they’ve had at least one good coach…

When Ulster have a good coach, they run him out of the place. The widespread (mis)perception amongst fans of Mark McCall was that he was a total spoofer whose sole Celtic League triumph in 2006 represented a meager return on his playing resources. Mark Anscombe, easily the most successful Ulster coach of the pro era by win percentage (and in fairness, came close to delivering silverware in his two seasons), is another example. Perceived to be a failure and hounded out after two years. You could even cite Brian McLaughlin being removed after making the Heineken Cup final in 2012 (a decision made before they got to that stage, but still).