A whiff of Cordite

[wixfjord]

I find the constant digs at Jackman on here quite strange.

Firstly he's an ex Leinster player and comes across a generally good guy.

But he's also one of the best analysts out there and constantly breaks interesting news on The42 podcast.

No idea what people were on about during the game the other night.

You've just taken what was said up totally wrong suisse.

What Jackman was actually saying there was Leinster's depth is 'phenomenal' and that's 'making those youngsters even better'.

So literally the opposite to what you're trying to intimate.

For anyone who wants to check, it starts 18.40 into this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbhi3Ip ... C3%89Sport

[Dave Cahill]

I find the constant digs at Jackman on here quite strange.

Firstly he's an ex Leinster player and comes across a generally good guy.

But he's also one of the best analysts out there and constantly breaks interesting news on The42 podcast.

No idea what people were on about during the game the other night.

You've just taken what was said up totally wrong suisse.

What Jackman was actually saying there was Leinster's depth is 'phenomenal' and that's 'making those youngsters even better'.

So literally the opposite to what you're trying to intimate.

For anyone who wants to check, it starts 18.40 into this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbhi3Ip ... C3%89Sport

What a lot of people want isn't good punditry or analysis, what they want is pandering, hagiography, and fan service.

[cormac]

I find the constant digs at Jackman on here quite strange.

Firstly he's an ex Leinster player and comes across a generally good guy.

But he's also one of the best analysts out there and constantly breaks interesting news on The42 podcast.

No idea what people were on about during the game the other night.

You've just taken what was said up totally wrong suisse.

What Jackman was actually saying there was Leinster's depth is 'phenomenal' and that's 'making those youngsters even better'.

So literally the opposite to what you're trying to intimate.

For anyone who wants to check, it starts 18.40 into this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbhi3Ip ... C3%89Sport

Have to admit I’ve had a bit of a dislike for him ever since I read the book he released shortly after he retired. Rubbed me up completely the wrong way.

[paddyor]

He was praising Leinster's squad building.

I took it as a dig tbh. Like Macacrthy would he starting elsewhere or in Leinster if Jenkins hadn’t been signed. He’s not a fan of Leinster having a “monopoly” of sorts on young talent. He had a cut about the hoarding of prop talent in the aftermath of the Māori game and the minor injury crisis it threw up. He even had some cracked idea that the IRFU needed to commit to establishing some position to get players playing in France to grow the player base while at the same time talking up the AIL as a development pathway(not in the same episode)

Maybe he has a point about Macacrthy starting elsewhere. Though Connacht are now well stocked at 2nd row and he’d be behind both Munster starters(and Snyman) and Edogbo has emerged to with Ahern. It’s really only Ulster I can think of he’d be really needed(Bradshaw Ryan seems a bust) but again he’d likely behind the starters in AOC and Henderson.

We needed a ready made lock to go with our eldest Molony(28) and the next oldest Ryan(26). I think he’d have a point if we’d signed like a 23 year old or whatever. We do need someone to go with the rest of our lock stocks which are all basically babies in lock terms.

[naraic]

Have to admit I’ve had a bit of a dislike for him ever since I read the book he released shortly after he retired. Rubbed me up completely the wrong way.

For me it was his first year as a pundit on RTE just after he retired. He had a rant about some young Leinster player who came off on a HIA being too selfish to properly fail his baseline tests.

He went on to say that any player who came off after a HIA didn't care about their jersey as the tests were easy too fool.

Ever since that I've been unable to listen to him without thinking please just shut up.

Edited to add: I know its 11 years ago now but its something that I've not been able to let go of.

[paddyor]

I find the constant digs at Jackman on here quite strange.

Firstly he's an ex Leinster player and comes across a generally good guy.

But he's also one of the best analysts out there and constantly breaks interesting news on The42 podcast.

No idea what people were on about during the game the other night.

You've just taken what was said up totally wrong suisse.

What Jackman was actually saying there was Leinster's depth is 'phenomenal' and that's 'making those youngsters even better'.

So literally the opposite to what you're trying to intimate.

For anyone who wants to check, it starts 18.40 into this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbhi3Ip ... C3%89Sport

Couldn’t hear the commentary but didn’t think he was particularly grating on a half eyed rewatch.

I don’t think Suisse got him wrong though. The context is all the other stuff he’s said about Leinster hoarding talent. Which is a wider view in Irish rugby he alludes to from time to time on the 42 IMO.

I mostly like him and he gets a lot right but I don’t think he’s completely even handed. He seems to have a lot of agent connections(helps him break stories etc).

[paddyor]

Have to admit I’ve had a bit of a dislike for him ever since I read the book he released shortly after he retired. Rubbed me up completely the wrong way.

For me it was his first year as a pundit on RTE just after he retired. He had a rant about some young Leinster player who came off on a HIA being too selfish to properly fail his baseline tests.

He went on to say that any player who came off after a HIA didn't care about their jersey as the tests were easy too fool.

Ever since that I've been unable to listen to him without thinking please just shut up.

Edited to add: I know its 11 years ago now but its something that I've not been able to let go of.

I’d be inclined to give him a pass there. It’s been a big decade in that regard.

[Serb]

Not sure the right thread for this, but I was chatting to my brother, a former high quality poster here, after looking at the teams this week.

We chatted about how Carbery, in 2018, was the high potential up and coming outhalf in the game, but he was struggling to get into our team in the “right” position, constantly playing as a full back and not trusted off the bench in the big games (e.g. Bilbao final).

Ultimately the IRFU saw it fit to move Carbery, still in contract with Leinster, to Munster for the good of the national team. All the “good faith” arguments from Munster fans were saying the move was justified to get both Sexton and Carbery playing, Carbery was too good to sit on the bench and also to keep the current and future combinations playing together (JGP/Sexton, Casey/Carbery).

Looking at the provinces this week, we have Jack Crowley in an identical position — high potential, can’t get in the team at 10, being played out of position at 12 and 15. Meanwhile, Ulster are playing the highest potential 9 at out half because they literally don’t have a 10 outside of Burns, who is also constantly being criticised for not being good enough.

I’m assuming the IRFU are now working hard to get Crowley to Ulster to get him playing as a 10, and to keep the next combination together (Doak/Crowley)… he’s to god to sit in the bench, right?

[Dave Cahill]

Have to admit I’ve had a bit of a dislike for him ever since I read the book he released shortly after he retired. Rubbed me up completely the wrong way.

For me it was his first year as a pundit on RTE just after he retired. He had a rant about some young Leinster player who came off on a HIA being too selfish to properly fail his baseline tests.

He went on to say that any player who came off after a HIA didn't care about their jersey as the tests were easy too fool.

Ever since that I've been unable to listen to him without thinking please just shut up.

Edited to add: I know its 11 years ago now but its something that I've not been able to let go of.

11 years ago that was the prevalent attitude among professional players (and coaches most of the time) - if you weren't gaming your baselines you couldn't be counted on and your teammates wouldn't trust you. That was a completely honest and accurate piece of punditry.

[Dave Cahill]

Not sure the right thread for this, but I was chatting to my brother, a former high quality poster here, after looking at the teams this week.

We chatted about how Carbery, in 2018, was the high potential up and coming outhalf in the game, but he was struggling to get into our team in the “right” position, constantly playing as a full back and not trusted off the bench in the big games (e.g. Bilbao final).

Ultimately the IRFU saw it fit to move Carbery, still in contract with Leinster, to Munster for the good of the national team. All the “good faith” arguments from Munster fans were saying the move was justified to get both Sexton and Carbery playing, Carbery was too good to sit on the bench and also to keep the current and future combinations playing together (JGP/Sexton, Casey/Carbery).

Looking at the provinces this week, we have Jack Crowley in an identical position — high potential, can’t get in the team at 10, being played out of position at 12 and 15. Meanwhile, Ulster are playing the highest potential 9 at out half because they literally don’t have a 10 outside of Burns, who is also constantly being criticised for not being good enough.

I’m assuming the IRFU are now working hard to get Crowley to Ulster to get him playing as a 10, and to keep the next combination together (Doak/Crowley)… he’s to god to sit in the bench, right?

He won't be sitting on the bench though - I'd be very surprised if Carbery finishes the season as Munster's starting 10

[OTT]

[quote=cormac post_id=817805 time=1672259547 user_id=417]
Have to admit I’ve had a bit of a dislike for him ever since I read the book he released shortly after he retired. Rubbed me up completely the wrong way.
[/quote]

I couldn’t believe when he said he didn’t do any extra lineout practice, it was the one area of the game where he struggled massively. He could have had another 50 or 60 Irish caps if his throwing in wasn’t so bad. It baffled me reading it.

Not sure of his coaching pedigree, looked like he got found out at Grenoble when he became senior coach, waffled his way through the Dragons ‘rebuild’.

His inside knowledge seems to be mostly pub whispers from mates.

Didn’t watch the match on via sport so no comment on the Munster match just find him generally a waffler, probably not a bad guy, just a bit of a bullshit merchant. Some people think he’s very informative, I don’t but to each their own.

[naraic]

I’d be inclined to give him a pass there. It’s been a big decade in that regard.

11 years ago that was the prevalent attitude among professional players (and coaches most of the time) - if you weren't gaming your baselines you couldn't be counted on and your teammates wouldn't trust you. That was a completely honest and accurate piece of punditry.

You are both correct but its stuck in my head in a big way since it was said.

[Serb]

Not sure the right thread for this, but I was chatting to my brother, a former high quality poster here, after looking at the teams this week.

We chatted about how Carbery, in 2018, was the high potential up and coming outhalf in the game, but he was struggling to get into our team in the “right” position, constantly playing as a full back and not trusted off the bench in the big games (e.g. Bilbao final).

Ultimately the IRFU saw it fit to move Carbery, still in contract with Leinster, to Munster for the good of the national team. All the “good faith” arguments from Munster fans were saying the move was justified to get both Sexton and Carbery playing, Carbery was too good to sit on the bench and also to keep the current and future combinations playing together (JGP/Sexton, Casey/Carbery).

Looking at the provinces this week, we have Jack Crowley in an identical position — high potential, can’t get in the team at 10, being played out of position at 12 and 15. Meanwhile, Ulster are playing the highest potential 9 at out half because they literally don’t have a 10 outside of Burns, who is also constantly being criticised for not being good enough.

I’m assuming the IRFU are now working hard to get Crowley to Ulster to get him playing as a 10, and to keep the next combination together (Doak/Crowley)… he’s to god to sit in the bench, right?

He won't be sitting on the bench though - I'd be very surprised if Carbery finishes the season as Munster's starting 10

I don’t think that will be the case. I’m not convinced Crowley is ready for first choice personally, think he has been a mixed bag when he has featured at 10, but obviously has bags of potential. He needs games at 10 to develop, but every game is a cup final for Munster right now, I don’t think they’ll risk him often enough at 10 to make meaningful progress.

Carbery is entering his prime and should realistically be stepping up to a new level. Should Crowley overtake him, the same logic should apply — with Sexton (presumably) retiring, we can’t have our two best players in the most important position not playing every week next season, so Carbery would need to be moved on.

[Dave Cahill]

I think the realisation that the Leinster coaches and a lot of Leinster fans came to long before he moved, that Joey is not an option at the highest level at outhalf, is being arrived at in Munster.

They should move him to full back and play Crowley.

[riocard911]

I think the realisation that the Leinster coaches and a lot of Leinster fans came to long before he moved, that Joey is not an option at the highest level at outhalf, is being arrived at in Munster.

They should move him to full back and play Crowley.

"And so say all of us!..."

[Dexter]

I think the realisation that the Leinster coaches and a lot of Leinster fans came to long before he moved, that Joey is not an option at the highest level at outhalf, is being arrived at in Munster.

They should move him to full back and play Crowley.

But this is, what, 4 years later?? Such a waste of seasons.

[munster#1]

Not sure the right thread for this, but I was chatting to my brother, a former high quality poster here, after looking at the teams this week.

We chatted about how Carbery, in 2018, was the high potential up and coming outhalf in the game, but he was struggling to get into our team in the “right” position, constantly playing as a full back and not trusted off the bench in the big games (e.g. Bilbao final).

Ultimately the IRFU saw it fit to move Carbery, still in contract with Leinster, to Munster for the good of the national team. All the “good faith” arguments from Munster fans were saying the move was justified to get both Sexton and Carbery playing, Carbery was too good to sit on the bench and also to keep the current and future combinations playing together (JGP/Sexton, Casey/Carbery).

Looking at the provinces this week, we have Jack Crowley in an identical position — high potential, can’t get in the team at 10, being played out of position at 12 and 15. Meanwhile, Ulster are playing the highest potential 9 at out half because they literally don’t have a 10 outside of Burns, who is also constantly being criticised for not being good enough.

I’m assuming the IRFU are now working hard to get Crowley to Ulster to get him playing as a 10, and to keep the next combination together (Doak/Crowley)… he’s to god to sit in the bench, right?

He won't be sitting on the bench though - I'd be very surprised if Carbery finishes the season as Munster's starting 10

I don’t think that will be the case. I’m not convinced Crowley is ready for first choice personally, think he has been a mixed bag when he has featured at 10, but obviously has bags of potential. He needs games at 10 to develop, but every game is a cup final for Munster right now, I don’t think they’ll risk him often enough at 10 to make meaningful progress.

Carbery is entering his prime and should realistically be stepping up to a new level. Should Crowley overtake him, the same logic should apply — with Sexton (presumably) retiring, we can’t have our two best players in the most important position not playing every week next season, so Carbery would need to be moved on.

Is it not very contradictory to believe that Crowley should be moved to Ulster if you believe that he is not ready to be first choice?

If he’s not ready, then he’ll find himself behind Billy and Madigan there, so could potentially go from second choice to third.

I’m all for the moving of talent when required, but not sure you made a good enough case here.

[Serb]

He won't be sitting on the bench though - I'd be very surprised if Carbery finishes the season as Munster's starting 10

I don’t think that will be the case. I’m not convinced Crowley is ready for first choice personally, think he has been a mixed bag when he has featured at 10, but obviously has bags of potential. He needs games at 10 to develop, but every game is a cup final for Munster right now, I don’t think they’ll risk him often enough at 10 to make meaningful progress.

Carbery is entering his prime and should realistically be stepping up to a new level. Should Crowley overtake him, the same logic should apply — with Sexton (presumably) retiring, we can’t have our two best players in the most important position not playing every week next season, so Carbery would need to be moved on.

Is it not very contradictory to believe that Crowley should be moved to Ulster if you believe that he is not ready to be first choice?

If he’s not ready, then he’ll find himself behind Billy and Madigan there, so could potentially go from second choice to third.

I’m all for the moving of talent when required, but not sure you made a good enough case here.

It’s literally the identical scenario to Carbery.

He’s not ahead of Carbery. Ulster’s second choice scrum half is ahead of virtually all the 10s at Ulster. Ulster would play him as a 10.

[munster#1]

I don’t think that will be the case. I’m not convinced Crowley is ready for first choice personally, think he has been a mixed bag when he has featured at 10, but obviously has bags of potential. He needs games at 10 to develop, but every game is a cup final for Munster right now, I don’t think they’ll risk him often enough at 10 to make meaningful progress.

Carbery is entering his prime and should realistically be stepping up to a new level. Should Crowley overtake him, the same logic should apply — with Sexton (presumably) retiring, we can’t have our two best players in the most important position not playing every week next season, so Carbery would need to be moved on.

Is it not very contradictory to believe that Crowley should be moved to Ulster if you believe that he is not ready to be first choice?

If he’s not ready, then he’ll find himself behind Billy and Madigan there, so could potentially go from second choice to third.

I’m all for the moving of talent when required, but not sure you made a good enough case here.

It’s literally the identical scenario to Carbery.

He’s not ahead of Carbery. Ulster’s second choice scrum half is ahead of virtually all the 10s at Ulster. Ulster would play him as a 10.

So you think that even though Crowley is not good enough to be a first choice 10 (in your opinion), that Ulster would/should make him first choice ahead of Billy and Madigan?

[Serb]

Is it not very contradictory to believe that Crowley should be moved to Ulster if you believe that he is not ready to be first choice?

If he’s not ready, then he’ll find himself behind Billy and Madigan there, so could potentially go from second choice to third.

I’m all for the moving of talent when required, but not sure you made a good enough case here.

It’s literally the identical scenario to Carbery.

He’s not ahead of Carbery. Ulster’s second choice scrum half is ahead of virtually all the 10s at Ulster. Ulster would play him as a 10.

So you think that even though Crowley is not good enough to be a first choice 10 (in your opinion), that Ulster would/should make him first choice ahead of Billy and Madigan?

He’s not first choice 10… for Munster, because they have a 10, yes. They have three of them.

He would be moving to a club that have zero decent 10s.

Ulster are a different club with different players FYI.