Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

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cormac
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by cormac »

D4surfer wrote: September 27th, 2021, 11:15 am
leinsterfan100 wrote: September 25th, 2021, 7:41 pm What's the story with the bars being closed....is that part of the restrictions ? 🤦
I think it is part of the restrictions. It's difficult to have social distancing in a queue for a bar. People would also be standing around indoors without face masks drinking. I would have murdered a few pints, but was just happy to be at a match again.
It did mean that there was far less disruption during the game with fans getting up from their seats to go on a beer run.
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by ronk »

cormac wrote: September 27th, 2021, 1:30 pm
D4surfer wrote: September 27th, 2021, 11:15 am
leinsterfan100 wrote: September 25th, 2021, 7:41 pm What's the story with the bars being closed....is that part of the restrictions ? 🤦
I think it is part of the restrictions. It's difficult to have social distancing in a queue for a bar. People would also be standing around indoors without face masks drinking. I would have murdered a few pints, but was just happy to be at a match again.
It did mean that there was far less disruption during the game with fans getting up from their seats to go on a beer run.
I remember thinking the people leaving 5 mins before the end of the half were in for a surprise.
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by hugonaut »

I've been thinking about how well Dan Sheehan played, particularly in light of the fact that he was up against Bismarck du Plessis in his head-to-head. Bismarck is certainly past his peak, but in his prime he was one of the very best hookers of the professional era [25+ years at this stage] ... not sure that I would rate any hooker ahead of him, though Fitzpatrick, Smit, Servat, Ledesma and Wood are obviously all up there in the mix.

I was really impressed with Dan's game, particularly in the loose. It's like playing with another No8 on the pitch – he's that big, that quick and that good a handler. His lineout throwing was sharp and his fitness and ability to produce repeat efforts were really noteworthy and a testament to the amount of work he has put in over the last five/six months. He has done a big job on his body composition over the last year and that level of discipline and effort will stand to him in the medium and long term.

Jan 2021: https://www.sportsfile.com/id/1976161/
Sep 2021: https://www.sportsfile.com/id/2087793/

Really looking forward to seeing more of him this season. Part of me thinks that we may have re-signed Cro for an unexpected additional year because Farrell has been talking to Lancaster, Cullen and McBride about Sheehan and about bringing him into the national team orbit. Keeping Cro on the books makes an awful lot of sense if that's the situation.
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by Dave Cahill »

hugonaut wrote: September 27th, 2021, 5:59 pm I've been thinking about how well Dan Sheehan played, particularly in light of the fact that he was up against Bismarck du Plessis in his head-to-head. Bismarck is certainly past his peak, but in his prime he was one of the very best hookers of the professional era [25+ years at this stage] ... not sure that I would rate any hooker ahead of him, though Fitzpatrick, Smit, Servat, Ledesma and Wood are obviously all up there in the mix.

I was really impressed with Dan's game, particularly in the loose. It's like playing with another No8 on the pitch – he's that big, that quick and that good a handler. His lineout throwing was sharp and his fitness and ability to produce repeat efforts were really noteworthy and a testament to the amount of work he has put in over the last five/six months. He has done a big job on his body composition over the last year and that level of discipline and effort will stand to him in the medium and long term.

Jan 2021: https://www.sportsfile.com/id/1976161/
Sep 2021: https://www.sportsfile.com/id/2087793/

Really looking forward to seeing more of him this season. Part of me thinks that we may have re-signed Cro for an unexpected additional year because Farrell has been talking to Lancaster, Cullen and McBride about Sheehan and about bringing him into the national team orbit. Keeping Cro on the books makes an awful lot of sense if that's the situation.
I'd agree with that - but he still has one thing to learn, a thing that all really talented young players need to learn. Just because you can do a thing, it doesn't mean that you have to do that thing. In Sheehans case he needs to be a bit more selective in his passing and offloading. Its only a small thing, but important
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by hugonaut »

Dave Cahill wrote: September 27th, 2021, 6:03 pm
hugonaut wrote: September 27th, 2021, 5:59 pm I've been thinking about how well Dan Sheehan played, particularly in light of the fact that he was up against Bismarck du Plessis in his head-to-head. Bismarck is certainly past his peak, but in his prime he was one of the very best hookers of the professional era [25+ years at this stage] ... not sure that I would rate any hooker ahead of him, though Fitzpatrick, Smit, Servat, Ledesma and Wood are obviously all up there in the mix.

I was really impressed with Dan's game, particularly in the loose. It's like playing with another No8 on the pitch – he's that big, that quick and that good a handler. His lineout throwing was sharp and his fitness and ability to produce repeat efforts were really noteworthy and a testament to the amount of work he has put in over the last five/six months. He has done a big job on his body composition over the last year and that level of discipline and effort will stand to him in the medium and long term.

Jan 2021: https://www.sportsfile.com/id/1976161/
Sep 2021: https://www.sportsfile.com/id/2087793/

Really looking forward to seeing more of him this season. Part of me thinks that we may have re-signed Cro for an unexpected additional year because Farrell has been talking to Lancaster, Cullen and McBride about Sheehan and about bringing him into the national team orbit. Keeping Cro on the books makes an awful lot of sense if that's the situation.
I'd agree with that - but he still has one thing to learn, a thing that all really talented young players need to learn. Just because you can do a thing, it doesn't mean that you have to do that thing. In Sheehans case he needs to be a bit more selective in his passing and offloading. Its only a small thing, but important
I thought that the offload that went into touch near their line was just one of those things that went awry because of miscommunication.

Locko hasn't played much with Dan, and he hasn't played much on the wing recently. The offload was really well-executed and if Locko was more familiar with Dan's ability to get the ball out of contact, he might have stayed wide and had an easy, walk-in try. I have to say that I like seeing his [Dan's] ability to handle the ball so confidently.
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by mildlyinterested »

Personally I think the more offloading and passing the better.

I've watched enough dross rugby as of late, Sheehans ability and willingness to offload was great to see and I was disappointed to see him go off so early at the weekend.
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by Dave Cahill »

hugonaut wrote: September 27th, 2021, 6:14 pm
I thought that the offload that went into touch near their line was just one of those things that went awry because of miscommunication.

Locko hasn't played much with Dan, and he hasn't played much on the wing recently. The offload was really well-executed and if Locko was more familiar with Dan's ability to get the ball out of contact, he might have stayed wide and had an easy, walk-in try. I have to say that I like seeing his [Dan's] ability to handle the ball so confidently.
So do I and I think it's great that he has that ability, just saying that the next stage in his development will be 'shot selection' - its what will turn him from a prospect to a regular international. At the level he is already at, he has to be held to a higher standard - Rory was always going to cut in on that line as he wasn't going to leave the ruck unresourced - however the entire opportunity was as a result of a Sheehan offload that opened up the opportunity for Sexton to switch back to McGrath
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by ronk »

hugonaut wrote: September 27th, 2021, 5:59 pm I've been thinking about how well Dan Sheehan played, particularly in light of the fact that he was up against Bismarck du Plessis in his head-to-head. Bismarck is certainly past his peak, but in his prime he was one of the very best hookers of the professional era [25+ years at this stage] ... not sure that I would rate any hooker ahead of him, though Fitzpatrick, Smit, Servat, Ledesma and Wood are obviously all up there in the mix.

I was really impressed with Dan's game, particularly in the loose. It's like playing with another No8 on the pitch – he's that big, that quick and that good a handler. His lineout throwing was sharp and his fitness and ability to produce repeat efforts were really noteworthy and a testament to the amount of work he has put in over the last five/six months. He has done a big job on his body composition over the last year and that level of discipline and effort will stand to him in the medium and long term.

Jan 2021: https://www.sportsfile.com/id/1976161/
Sep 2021: https://www.sportsfile.com/id/2087793/

Really looking forward to seeing more of him this season. Part of me thinks that we may have re-signed Cro for an unexpected additional year because Farrell has been talking to Lancaster, Cullen and McBride about Sheehan and about bringing him into the national team orbit. Keeping Cro on the books makes an awful lot of sense if that's the situation.
Sure. We also need 4 hookers with even 1 likely to be used in internationals and Cronin has a lot of experience and been in lots of international squads. Very useful for 2 talented young hookers.
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by OneLungDavy »

Dave Cahill wrote: September 27th, 2021, 6:03 pm
hugonaut wrote: September 27th, 2021, 5:59 pm I've been thinking about how well Dan Sheehan played, particularly in light of the fact that he was up against Bismarck du Plessis in his head-to-head. Bismarck is certainly past his peak, but in his prime he was one of the very best hookers of the professional era [25+ years at this stage] ... not sure that I would rate any hooker ahead of him, though Fitzpatrick, Smit, Servat, Ledesma and Wood are obviously all up there in the mix.

I was really impressed with Dan's game, particularly in the loose. It's like playing with another No8 on the pitch – he's that big, that quick and that good a handler. His lineout throwing was sharp and his fitness and ability to produce repeat efforts were really noteworthy and a testament to the amount of work he has put in over the last five/six months. He has done a big job on his body composition over the last year and that level of discipline and effort will stand to him in the medium and long term.

Jan 2021: https://www.sportsfile.com/id/1976161/
Sep 2021: https://www.sportsfile.com/id/2087793/

Really looking forward to seeing more of him this season. Part of me thinks that we may have re-signed Cro for an unexpected additional year because Farrell has been talking to Lancaster, Cullen and McBride about Sheehan and about bringing him into the national team orbit. Keeping Cro on the books makes an awful lot of sense if that's the situation.
I'd agree with that - but he still has one thing to learn, a thing that all really talented young players need to learn. Just because you can do a thing, it doesn't mean that you have to do that thing. In Sheehans case he needs to be a bit more selective in his passing and offloading. Its only a small thing, but important
Is this based on that one offload that went into touch? It was the right idea, we need more risk takers if anything. It would be different if he kept making the same mistake but I haven't seen anything to suggest as much.
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by the spoofer »

OneLungDavy wrote: September 27th, 2021, 7:17 pm
Dave Cahill wrote: September 27th, 2021, 6:03 pm
hugonaut wrote: September 27th, 2021, 5:59 pm I've been thinking about how well Dan Sheehan played, particularly in light of the fact that he was up against Bismarck du Plessis in his head-to-head. Bismarck is certainly past his peak, but in his prime he was one of the very best hookers of the professional era [25+ years at this stage] ... not sure that I would rate any hooker ahead of him, though Fitzpatrick, Smit, Servat, Ledesma and Wood are obviously all up there in the mix.

I was really impressed with Dan's game, particularly in the loose. It's like playing with another No8 on the pitch – he's that big, that quick and that good a handler. His lineout throwing was sharp and his fitness and ability to produce repeat efforts were really noteworthy and a testament to the amount of work he has put in over the last five/six months. He has done a big job on his body composition over the last year and that level of discipline and effort will stand to him in the medium and long term.

Jan 2021: https://www.sportsfile.com/id/1976161/
Sep 2021: https://www.sportsfile.com/id/2087793/

Really looking forward to seeing more of him this season. Part of me thinks that we may have re-signed Cro for an unexpected additional year because Farrell has been talking to Lancaster, Cullen and McBride about Sheehan and about bringing him into the national team orbit. Keeping Cro on the books makes an awful lot of sense if that's the situation.
I'd agree with that - but he still has one thing to learn, a thing that all really talented young players need to learn. Just because you can do a thing, it doesn't mean that you have to do that thing. In Sheehans case he needs to be a bit more selective in his passing and offloading. Its only a small thing, but important
Is this based on that one offload that went into touch? It was the right idea, we need more risk takers if anything. It would be different if he kept making the same mistake but I haven't seen anything to suggest as much.
You mean like Carbery throwing intercepts?
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by Dave Cahill »

OneLungDavy wrote: September 27th, 2021, 7:17 pm
Is this based on that one offload that went into touch? It was the right idea, we need more risk takers if anything. It would be different if he kept making the same mistake but I haven't seen anything to suggest as much.
No, hes done it a couple of times. Look its not a massive thing, but it would be a nice cherry on top if he were more selective. I agree that we need to take more calculated risks to win - we need to be a team that doesn't get dragged into a slugfest, but one leaves big heavy teams breathing out of their arses, with mobility and cleverness.
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by the spoofer »

The penalty against Molony for in front of the kicker. Was he not put onside by the chasers. Seemed like a weird one.
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by Blue Man »

It was fantastic to be back at a Leinster match and overall I thought it was a good performance. We left a few tries behind, turning the ball over when on their line on a number of occasions. However, it’s the start of the season so and we’ll be much more clinical after playing matches.

One point of concern is the number of penalties. I thought he ref rode us but that’s through blue tinted glasses. The worry is that this seems to be something of a trend, I recall high penalty counts in a number of matches towards the end of last season (Ulster, Connacht, Ospreys and of course the second half vs LR) and wonder is it is a problem and what the cause might be (not playing the ref, poor discipline or not evolving to new interpretations/World Rugby edicts)?
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by leinsterforever »

the spoofer wrote: September 27th, 2021, 8:10 pm The penalty against Molony for in front of the kicker. Was he not put onside by the chasers. Seemed like a weird one.
He has to not advance until he is put onside, I'd have thought.
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by ronk »

the spoofer wrote: September 27th, 2021, 8:10 pm The penalty against Molony for in front of the kicker. Was he not put onside by the chasers. Seemed like a weird one.
Molony jogged forward then sprinted when he was played onside. It's almost never called but Molony isn't in position to receive the ball later if he goes full stop and start.

Even then it's the sort of call that makes you think the ref hates your guts. And we got pinged a lot.
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by Dave Cahill »

Yeah you have to make at least a token effort to retire to an onside position
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by Dundalk 1 »

ronk wrote: September 27th, 2021, 9:35 pm
the spoofer wrote: September 27th, 2021, 8:10 pm The penalty against Molony for in front of the kicker. Was he not put onside by the chasers. Seemed like a weird one.
Molony jogged forward then sprinted when he was played onside. It's almost never called but Molony isn't in position to receive the ball later if he goes full stop and start.

Even then it's the sort of call that makes you think the ref hates your guts. And we got pinged a lot.
Sexton kicked but I don’t think he was leading the chase so unless the rules have changed again and of course they could have he was the only one that could play Moloney onside
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by ronk »

Dundalk 1 wrote: September 27th, 2021, 10:13 pm
ronk wrote: September 27th, 2021, 9:35 pm
the spoofer wrote: September 27th, 2021, 8:10 pm The penalty against Molony for in front of the kicker. Was he not put onside by the chasers. Seemed like a weird one.
Molony jogged forward then sprinted when he was played onside. It's almost never called but Molony isn't in position to receive the ball later if he goes full stop and start.

Even then it's the sort of call that makes you think the ref hates your guts. And we got pinged a lot.
Sexton kicked but I don’t think he was leading the chase so unless the rules have changed again and of course they could have he was the only one that could play Moloney onside
They changed a while back
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by Dundalk 1 »

ronk wrote: September 27th, 2021, 10:47 pm
Dundalk 1 wrote: September 27th, 2021, 10:13 pm
ronk wrote: September 27th, 2021, 9:35 pm

Molony jogged forward then sprinted when he was played onside. It's almost never called but Molony isn't in position to receive the ball later if he goes full stop and start.

Even then it's the sort of call that makes you think the ref hates your guts. And we got pinged a lot.
Sexton kicked but I don’t think he was leading the chase so unless the rules have changed again and of course they could have he was the only one that could play Moloney onside


They changed a while back
“Additionally, the players who are offside initially must retreat 10m behind where the ball will land before advancing, even if they have been passed by an onside player. “
This is the rule that Adamson applied
And in fairness he was correct
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Re: Leinster v Bulls Aviva Stadium 5.15 Sat 25th Sept TG4

Post by fourthirtythree »

Yeah, I was convinced by the replay that it was a good call at the time. He had a good game, and really looks different, but he maybe didn't have quite enough match fitness to do his part there.

I'm sure it won't happen again. There seems to be a real desire to improve this year. I may be reading too much into changes in players physiques and their willingness to move, and the fact that three of our players that you would have felt were lions starters before last ason didn't travel, but I get a sense of a lot of difficult reflection turned into angry self improvement.
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